Internet reports say the LNE turntable from Pen Argyl was removed last week. Where's it headed? Rumor mill says Altoona, Strasburg, Phillipsburg and scrapper. Some mill!While I am glad it appears it is being preserved, it is really ashame than an intact steam-era servicing and shop facility that made it to the year 2005 is now going to be Box-Store'd.Oh well.Rob

When I was at Strasburg a couple weeks ago there was a "new" table sitting on cribbing and a couple trucks across from the enginehouse, with their other table across the street. Other bits for the table were located behing the enginehouse. I took some photos but they didn't come out. Fairly sure its the L&NE table. It was delayed getting to Strasburg from what I hear. Too bad the complex can't be preserved as a whole, but glad components are being saved.Joshua

It is not in Altoona. Our table is of RF&P vintage. Formerly belonged to Jack Showalter. I believe the Pen Argyl Table is at Strasburg.

The reason that Pen Argyl isn't being saved is because people didn't want to save it. I know this may sound like a over simplification, but in most cases there really is a way where there is a will. Demolitions will continue until those interested in railroad preservation make preserving sites a priority.Tom Cornillie

Tom;While I wholeheartedly agree with your overall statement; it sounds like you blaming the downfall of Pen Argyl on the railroad preservation community. I beg to differ there.I believe that if the local community, along with some key folks (including the current owner) are not interested in preserving sites like this; they will only continue to fall.I don't have the experience of many folks here; I can only relate what I saw with the Solvay Coke Plant site. We generated a lot of interest in the compressor house from the preservation community. The local newspaper wrote three articles about our efforts, and a film crew even shot some footage in the building before it came down.We gave other examples where adaptive reuse was made of locations like this, and explained that this one of the last (if not the last) intact steam powered compressor house in the nation; some of the machines were the last of their kind.But, the developer could only see scrap value in the machinery, and there was not outcry from the community and civic leaders. A local steam club and the individual I was working with saved some of the engines; and the compressor house started coming down last August.Until the general public appreciates the historic value and heritage of industrial locations; this will continue to occur over and over. Meanwhile, we continue to swim against the tide of public opinion.-James Hefner Hebrews 10:20a Surviving World Steam Project

Preservation of a site like Pen Argyl and many others like it wont do anyone any good wthout some reason to save it and sound, planned, adaptive reuse of the facility. When we are talking large parcels of real estate and infrastructure, preservation simply for the sake of preservation is a very poor approach. Might not be a popular thing to say among "preservationists" of which I count myself as one, but not all of these sites can be or should be preserved. There is no way around reaching the point where you have to deal with the economics of the situation. It HAS to pay for itself somehow. Unless of course Uncle Sam steps in and he isn't stopping by like he used to.Thanks

The last connection to the outside world, a line that ran over to connect with the ex-DL&W Bangor & Portland was last operated by the EL and torn up by Conrail (or perhaps the EL estate) in the late 1970's. With that gone the site is miles from the nearest railhead. This made it an unlikely site to be preserved, at least with a railroad theme.It is interesting to note that there was an attempt to save the L&NE between Portland and Pen Argyl as a shortline/tourist line before the line was torn up in 1962. After that failed the same people bid on the NYS&W (which hosted the L&NE) between Hainesburg Jct. and Sparta Jct. Sadly, they were outbid by the city of Newark which wanted the right of way for a pipeline to the never built Tocks Island dam.

Tom,I could not agree more.Pennsylvania and New Jersey (I include Jwrsey since Pen Argyl is so far east) have not done a good job of preserving large railroad sites. In fact, both states seem more interested in open fields than historic sites.Is that being too harsh? Yes, probably, but hear me out.The Pen Argyl shop complex has been a stunning survivor for 44 years after the LNE went belly up. With the exception of the trasnfer table and most rail, the entire complex survived intact until the past year (heck even the yard buildings and the pre 1900-shops are still there). Long before it was severed from the rest of the rail world (it is about 5.5 miles from active rail right now) it was worthy of preservation.Pen Argyl was there, but no one wanted it.Instead, in the 70's the state invested heavily in bulding the state railroad museum in a field across from the Strasburg Rail Road. Certianly, this was a good move for many reasons, but it did not foster any site preservation. Pen Argyl was there, but no one wanted it.When Steamtown moved south, there was a small outcry that Pen Argyl had the potential to be the EBT of the 1920's era (remember, even that modern looking shop is from WW1 era) and that the national park should go there, where the facilities were intact. Instead, the NPS essentially built a roundhouse from scratch.Pen Argyl was there, but no one wanted it.Groups in the state of New Jersey have been seeking a home for its collection... a collection that is in dire need of a home. Instead of preserving it at a rail site (like Communipaw) or crossing state boundaries in the name of finding the equipment a home, the latest choice is a field in Phillipsburg. Pen Argyl was there, but no one wanted it.The various groups devoted to anthracite railroad preservation have yet to muster any significant museum sites, though the Reading Tech is on the way to doing it in Hamburg.Pen Argyl was there, but no one wanted it.Was Pen Argyl a better choice than any of these others? Maybe, maybe not. But to echo the original point...Pen Argyl was there, but no one wanted it.Now, 44 years after the LNE quit, and 65+years since steam operated at Pen Argyl, the site is no longer intact. Yes, we should be grateful some will be saved. The preservation community (rail, industrial, state, etc...) took no interest, even in transforming the site intact into adaptive reuse like the Chambersburg, PA, Winniped, MB or Keene, NH shops. Pen Argyl was there, but no one wanted it.And now, the owner decides he wants to cash out.Pen Argyl was there, and Wal-Mart wanted it.And they are getting it.Rob Davis

is absolutely the key in saving such historic sites. Most of us who see potential in these places live somewhere else. The best thing we can do is to try to inspire one or more local persons to take up the cause, because without their active involvement, it simply won't happen.Unfortunately, for most locals, such sad, abandoned structures are little more than an eyesore, that are an attractive nuisance to partying teenagers or vagrants.We outsiders can still help a lot, however, with information, contacts and advice. I've worked with the folks at Hugo, Colorado for over ten years, but the best support effort I've seen is the great website Tom Cornille created in very short time to try to save the C&NW roundhouse at Altoona, Wisconsin. That's a good model for anyone to follow. Unfortunately, his local contact gave up too easily, and the building was quickly demolished, but Tom's effort is outstanding.http://www.rypn.org/altoona/

That's what heppened in Pen Argyl. Mike Piersa got involved, I got involved too late. I was invited to address a council meeting, but then it all unraveled as it became clear there were some strong interests in favor of the Wal*Mart. HOWEVER...The development, not just of the shops site but part of the yard site, is hitting snags. It may not be too late to save the structures. But what to do next?Development Delayedhttp://www.nj.com/news/expresstimes/pa/index.ssf?/base/news-1/1122973588308410.xml&coll=2And there is local opposition now (still, again? I didn't find much last year)http://www.nj.com/news/expresstimes/pa/index.ssf?/base/news-1/112176396736820.xml&coll=2" Northampton County Councilman Ron Angle said he has opposed the proposed site from the beginning."Rob

The archives of the National Canal Museum, in Easton, PA, did a photographic documentation (4x5 black and white) of the site last fall. I took a few hundred digital pictures at the same time. As someone who lives 15 minutes from the site, I have a few comments to add. First, from my experience, most locals, both railfans and the general public, do not seem to be aware that the site even exists anymore. Unlike nearby Bethlehem, where the imposing historic steel mill often makes the news (2 papers and tv), the only public mention I have seen that specifically mentioned the shops/roundhouse is one editorial in the Pocono Record. It was only because of Rob Davis’ posts here that I learned of the plan to destroy the shops. The other issue, already brought up, is adaptive reuse. This is a hard case to make as it already occurred. The shops, roundhouse, powerhouse, and other structures were already in use by industrial firms who themselves now have to relocate because of the Wal-Mart coming in. In the event that the shops are demolished, their destruction should serve as a wake up call for Pen Argyl. The slate quarries (call ahead as trespassers are arrested) in town hold a wealth of history, probably even more than the shops. A narrow gauge diesel or gas “dinky” locomotive and a stationary steam engine, now operating near Bangor, PA, from one slate mill have already been saved and it is likely that more will be preserved.

Mike,I commend you for your efforts. I should have been a little more detailed in my "adaptive reuse" statement. As someone who has been all through the complex at the invitation of the owner, much of the complex, while being "reused", was being used by the owner's own construction companies and not true tenants. We had a handshake agreement to purchase the turntable and bring it to Altoona. As it turned out, we purchased a table from Virginia and Strasburg bought the Pen Argyl table.I'm guessing he feels he could move his company offices and shops to some other piece of property he owns and pocket the check from WalMart. Unless occupancy has changed over the last 2 years, we aren't talking in this case about putting businesses out on the street looking for new homes other than those mostly owned and operated by the property owner himself.We were made aware of the WalMart deal as early as late 2002 when we first went to look at the turntable. I would simply reiterate what I said earlier in that it is one thing to raise a voice in oppostion to the planned development but it is another thing to present a sound, valid, fiscally responsible alternative to the current proposal. Nobody is going to listen to the preservation for the sole sake of preservation approach.I wish you luck if there is stil a fighting chance. Lord knows I wish someone here in Altoona had taken the steps to preserve a tenth of what used to exist on the ground surrounding the Railroaders Museum property.Thanks

The real resason that the locomotive shops and round house are being torn down is not because Us the railfans didn`t want to stept in and say no we want our history, it is because a Wal-mart and other stores are coming in. and they are going to be using that ground for their site. Just pick up a copy of the local news paper sometime it helps. The Table was indeed saved ! it when to the ARHS. Len.

I will reiterate my earlier statement that the reason that a major 20th century Class 1 roundhouse or shop (which includes Pen Argyl) has not been saved is because people didn't want to save it. It is not as though the existence of Pen Argyl (or any other shop) has been a secret, nor it is difficult to realize how rare an intact facility like this has become. Moreover, consider how many facilities like Pen Argyl have been lost since 1970 – and compare that to the number of efforts to preserve sites that have reached the point of presenting “sound, valid, fiscally responsible plans” for preservation. These sites exist in a market economy, and any plan that has a chance of being successful must recognize this. To say that the site is lost because someone else wants it overlooks the fact that preservationists failed to make a viable effort to secure the site. Property everywhere, but historic sites are few in number and a non-renewable resource. My point in affixing responsibility for this trend to the preservation community is not to point fingers, but rather to identify the point where action should begin. There is a lot of work to be done – is the history of these sites important enough to justify it?Tom Cornillie

Thank you for posting. Your guess about moving the company occupying the shops to another property under the same owner is correct. When I first inquired about the site in 2003 the occupants told me that was the most likely outcome. Other than helping the National Canal Museum document the site, the obstacles of creating a realistic preservation plan seem to have hampered any possibilities of truly preserving the site. Beyond helping arrange the photographic documentation, the most I have been able to do is secure tentative permission from the National Museum of Industrial History (NMIH) in Bethlehem to store some small artifacts from Pen Argyl, such as oil pumps, in the event that they ever become available for donation. However, I have not even had time to look into the issue further, but hopefully someone else in the eastern PA or NJ will.