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 Post subject: 100 Year Old Salesmans Sample, What's it Worth?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 8:34 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 7:58 pm
Posts: 128
Location: Center Conway, NH
A friend of mine gave me this (these) Salesmans Samples along with the start-up company paperwork some years ago. They are models of a proposed coupler that could couple up the air, steam, and signal lines between railcars. The system apparently worked very well, but obviously, the idea didn't go very far. The main problem being that someone still had to turn the valves on.

I rarely take these out, and now have decided to let someone else appreciate them. I intend to donate the earnings to a railroad oriented nonprofit.

But, What are they worth? I've never seen anything like this before. I can supply more info if needed. Any help would be appreciated.

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 Post subject: Re: 100 Year Old Salesmans Sample, What's it Worth?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:51 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:07 am
Posts: 737
Location: Philadelphia Pa
Cerntainly can't answer you value question, but I don't know that I'd say they didn't go very far....while maybe not used on standard railroad equipment, the idea has been widely used in similar form on Mass Transit equipment for nearly a century.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Year Old Salesmans Sample, What's it Worth?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:51 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2226
I'm looking at this coupling and you have to ask...why did it not popularize?
There can be a lot of forces going on between cars, I can see this tearing up in a hurry.

Tomlinson style couplers worked on traction lines with electrical signal lines transferring.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Year Old Salesmans Sample, What's it Worth?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 6:53 am 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 2492
Quote:
"iven how many things that were used as obviously impossible spoof material over the years that have or may come to pass-perhaps people should quit their complaining about what is apparently an effective rain dance."


Well, for starters, it's incompatible with ANY existing coupler on the general system of North American interchange. And from what I can see of the locking mechanism, both expensive and somewhat dangerous to convert via a knuckle adapter plus hoses. One wonders why they bothered to attempt to flog the thing to a 'boxcar' market when there is little call aside from head-end M&E for freight cars with steam and signal lines built in. (At least they were smart enough to have the steam line below the air line, but I'd still expect some sealing fun with differential expansion in winter time...)

If you are going to integrate connectors like this it makes little sense not to ave a few electrical contacts in the thing, too. Or at least locations in the castings or attach points for them...

My take on 'what it's worth' -- more highly than usual, exquisitely dependent on the 'greater fool' you can find who wants it badly enough. The usual 'antiques roadshow' methodology might not work with something this specialized; the high-ticket buyer is not going to be someone who appreciates austere steampunk esthetic in the castings or early North American industrial dead-end designs. I would be tempted to list the thing on eBay with an artificially high reserve price and attractive description replete with keywords, and see who, in what communities, bites...

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 Post subject: Re: 100 Year Old Salesmans Sample, What's it Worth?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:43 pm 

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 2:22 pm
Posts: 1543
I would treasure that and never sell it. And for anyone trying to sell it, I suspect the market would be extremely small because most would not regard it as I do.

As a collectable item, it probably has no specific category such as obscure patent models. Most would dismiss it because it was not adopted. But there is a lot of story behind what was and was not adopted. I might actually find something like this that was not adopted to be more valuable than a model of what was adopted. In any case, I would not consider it diminished due to the fact that it was not adopted.

Furthermore, I would not be surprised if this coupler idea was flawed in design, and would not have worked reliably. It may mate okay. I cannot quite see how it mates. But the larger challenge would be to seal those conduits where they mate.

So to me, the whole background context is what counts, no matter how good the idea was. There were probably thousands of designs for automatic air hose couplers. This was from an era where the railroads were constantly besieged by inventors, each seeing the lucrative “deep pockets” and the need for all sorts of mechanical improvements. Many cockeyed inventions were offered. This model speaks of that frantic era.

So the intrigue of the model and its context, combined with the impeccable workmanship in steel is what I find valuable about it. The accompanying documentation also adds a lot.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Year Old Salesmans Sample, What's it Worth?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 7:22 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:28 pm
Posts: 545
Location: Northern WV
If you really want to know they're worth, try posting on Ebay with a fairly high reserve and see how high they go. I asked one time what an item was worth and was told "whatever somebody is willing to pay for it".

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 Post subject: Re: 100 Year Old Salesmans Sample, What's it Worth?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:37 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 3010
WVNorthern wrote:
I asked one time what an item was worth and was told "whatever somebody is willing to pay for it".


While that is a flippant remark, it's also quite true, especially for "one off" items.

We've all seen photos and other items go for stupid prices on ebay.

I once attended a live auction for a hobby shop that went out of business. I stared in amazement as people bid budget train sets up to list price PLUS 30% or more. They got caught up in the excitement and had no idea what the items were worth.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Year Old Salesmans Sample, What's it Worth?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:02 am 

Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:34 am
Posts: 550
Location: Granby, CT but formerly Port Jefferson, NY (LIRR MP 57.5)
There is an old joke among economists (so I've been told) that the winner of an auction has, by definition, paid too much.

(No one else in the room thinks the item is worth that much, only the guy who placed the winning bid.)

-Philip Marshall


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Year Old Salesmans Sample, What's it Worth?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:32 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:51 pm
Posts: 148
Mr. Marshall's hypothetical economists are presuming that all buyers at auction have "perfect knowledge" and place equal value on an item. Speaking from experience as a routine buyer of railroad equipment at auctions, the real world buyers place differing values on equipment. A dealer properly pays less as he will have to resell an item at the presumed market price in the future. As an end user, I could (and did) pay more on occasion. Here again, real world, dealers would not generally bid against end users, as those end users were potential customers.

Alex Huff, who once bought a steam cleaner at auction which had been frozen, splitting the coil. Water ran out faster than you could pour it in.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Year Old Salesmans Sample, What's it Worth?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:43 am 

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 2:22 pm
Posts: 1543
The models and documentation would have to be targeted to a very specific market. At a general auction, they might not fetch $10. But to collectors interested in railroad history focused in engineering, they might easily be worth hundreds.

One thought is that you could add something to their story by researching their history and use, if they were sold in production. Perhaps you could find the utility patent that was issued. Part of the value is the documentation, and what is available with the models would probably open the door to more.


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