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| And now for the reality-and the good news https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3917 |
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| Author: | Steamtown Volunteer [ Sun Sep 08, 2002 2:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | And now for the reality-and the good news |
Once again, I see Steamtown at the epicenter of tumult here on interchange. So from the inside view: First, this year for the first time since 1999, we have had TWO steamers running concurrently. Both bear the extra water glass and speed indicators required by the new federal regulations. This is was critical. Maybe the BLW 26 may be available sometime next year. In terms of training crews and putting steam in reach of the general public- that engine is paramount. Secondly, although we didn't have all the visiting equipment that we had in prior years-in some ways it was more relevent. THe D-L's loan of the former D&H RS-3 that dispatched the Challengers to the scrapper is in my mind is a far more relevant punctuating display to the steam era than a Genesis engine. The E-L diner-though somewhat forlorn now- may be a great display when the restoration is done. Behind the scenes there have been some positive administrative initiatives, although it will be in years to come that those efforts bear fruit. Is everything perfect? NO. Will it be? NO. Much of what I see is that Steamtown doesn't seem to follow traditional private goals. This is still a federal bureacracy. I'd like it to be organized more along the lines of a private entity-but thats not going to happen. I still see people being told "procedure XXX.XXX clearly states..".I expect that will continue since its the nature of the beast. There's been some discussion of marketing here- did you know the NPS is legally prohibited from advertising? It very hard get the idea of marketing into people who've not only never dealt with it but have been schooled its illegal. But that having been said- there are questions be asked that hadn't been asked before. Some even start with "how can we.." The new management hasn't been in place very long and there's much to do. But I think there will be improvements. I see them in a lot of ways. As I see it, our biggest enemy at times-especially as we see a contraction of mainline steam operations is the expectations and desires that come with having this physical plant. Those that think the mission of steamtown is to reinarnate the DL&W will always be disappointed. |
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| Author: | Rob Davis [ Sun Sep 08, 2002 6:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: And now for the reality-and the good news |
To Steamtown Volunteer from an ex Steamtown Volunteer (and someone who really wishes the potential of the parkÂ’s promise is fulfilled): >>Once again, I see Steamtown at the epicenter of tumult here on interchange. >(snip) First, this year for the first time since 1999, we have had TWO steamers running concurrently. Both bear the extra water glass and speed indicators required by the new federal regulations. This is was critical. Maybe the BLW 26 may be available sometime next year. In terms of training crews and putting steam in reach of the general public- that engine is paramount. > Secondly, although we didn't have all the visiting equipment that we had in prior years-in some ways it was more relevant. THe D-L's loan of the former D&H RS-3 that dispatched the Challengers to the scrapper is in my mind is a far more relevant punctuating display to the steam era than a Genesis engine. The E-L diner-though somewhat forlorn now- may be a great display when the restoration is done. >Behind the scenes there have been some positive administrative initiatives, although it will be in years to come that those efforts bear fruit. >Is everything perfect? NO. Will it be? NO. >(snip)There's been some discussion of marketing here- did you know the NPS is legally prohibited from advertising? It very hard get the idea of marketing into people who've not only never dealt with it but have been schooled its illegal. >But that having been said- there are questions be asked that hadn't been asked before. Some even start with "how can we.." >(snip)As I see it, our biggest enemy at times-especially as we see a contraction of mainline steam operations is the expectations and desires that come with having this physical plant. >Those that think the mission of steamtown is to reincarnate the DL&W will always be disappointed.<< Anyone who ever thought that was nutz. I always argued that the site should be restored accurately, but the equipment and operations needed no DL&W connection and would still provide a valuable interpretive experience. What it comes down to, SV, is that youÂ’ve got two operating engines and a really great park, yet there still arenÂ’t enough butts in seats to warrant trains a day 4 or 5 days a week. ThatÂ’s the part that remains incomprehensible. Or does it? If you have good people, good engines and a good museum there has to be something that is keeping the people away, no? I come back around to PR and marketing aimed at the tourist dollar. Rob Ahead of the Torch trains@robertjohndavis.com |
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| Author: | David Ackerman [ Sun Sep 08, 2002 8:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: And now for the reality-and the good news |
I think location may be a part of this. For better or for worse, older industrial centres are not the glamorous tourist destinations of en East or West coast metropolis. Scranton may be in Pennsylvania, but I expect that it suffers from the same fly-over country phenomenon that St. Louis or Detroit suffer from. Durango, and for that matter Denver, can do better, perhaps in part because of proximity to ski resorts. And people are rather more interesting in gold mines than coal mines. Why? Don't ask me. They're all pretty similair sorts of big holes in the ground, (and the coal mine I've been in was kind of interesting just because it was a bigger hole than the gold mine.) Maybe a real question is how do we get people interested in substance rather than appearance. In this case an art museum or a symphony hall is an appropriate comparison, since what we're all trying to offer is at some level an educational product. What is it that all of us could do, (and the symphonies are hurting as much as we are, by the way,) to get people in the seats, and more importantly, convince people that we are worthy of their donations of time and money? How do we make education and substance as interesting as beaches, theme parks, ski resorts, and casinos? And how do we convince people that the interior of the continent should be seen from the ground, and not a seat on a plane? Sincerely, David Ackerman david_ackerman@yahoo.com |
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| Author: | Ted Miles [ Sun Sep 08, 2002 11:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: And now for the reality-and the good news |
I too have an inside view of the National Park Service. And it is very true that advertising is foreign to the NPS. This is because until the 1960s there were a number of large natural Parks that in fact adveritsed themselves. Now come along a number of urban sites, National Historical Parks and NPS sites that are just plain new. These should be allowed to go after the touris dollar. At my Park, we use the assistance of a private non-profit to help this situation. The California State Railroad Museum is in the same pickle; they have to get their Foundation to advertise for them. I bet quite a few other government run museums are having the same problem attracting visitors! Not only does Disneyland have a huge advertising budget, but every shopping mall across the US has a Dieney Store. Imaagine what that does for attendence! Ted Miles ted_miles@nps.gov |
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| Author: | Steve Gilbert [ Sun Sep 08, 2002 11:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Advertising |
> There's been some discussion of marketing > here- did you know the NPS is legally > prohibited from advertising? It's very hard to > get the idea of marketing into people who've > not only never dealt with it but have been > schooled its illegal. Is the Steamtown Volunteers Association legally prohibited from advertising? Isn't this the entity that currently and/or formerly handled the excursion ticket sales? Why is it illegal for the NPS? Sounds to me like a law that just needs to be changed. NPS must be taught that SNHS cannot compare to other NPS sites like Yellowstone. People have not been visiting SNHS for 100 years. And this stuff costs more to maintain than trees and rocks do. What Steamtown has to offer - now and potentially - is great. But it's a waste to be hauling empty coaches around. There's gotta be a way to promote this place, and fill those coaches. |
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| Author: | ge13031 [ Mon Sep 09, 2002 6:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Farebox |
I know little advertising brings few riders but I have to ask ... Does anybody out there make it on the farebox receipts???? The whole "Thomas" setup seems to be an example of excellent marketing while I can provide numbers where a group successfully manages to hide a train from 150,000 people each year with no marketing. lamontdc@adelphia.net |
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| Author: | Dan [ Mon Sep 09, 2002 12:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Farebox |
Strasburg is the only operation I can think of. Advertising would help Steamtown, but there's a general lack of interest in what they have to offer. It's simply a sign of the times. Stay at home in front of the TV or go see something interesting and educational. Most will stay home and wax their cars. There just aren't enough curious people in the U.S. to support these kind of operations. Today is a "throw away" McDonald's society that just doesn't care to learn how things work. I'm just happy places like Steamtown even exist and are kept open. The site could have been razed for a Wal-mart! |
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| Author: | Rob Davis [ Mon Sep 09, 2002 4:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Mall Wort Re: Farebox |
> The site could have been > razed for a Wal-mart! Like in Rutland, VT's old rr yard? Scranton already sold it soul for a mall that finished the job of killing the downtown. Wal*Mart went where the people are up there, not where they aren't. Rob Ahead of the Torch trains@robertjohndavis.com |
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| Author: | Jack [ Thu Sep 12, 2002 10:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Farebox |
> I know little advertising brings few riders > but I have to ask ... Does anybody out there > make it on the farebox receipts???? The > whole "Thomas" setup seems to be > an example of excellent marketing while I > can provide numbers where a group > successfully manages to hide a train from > 150,000 people each year with no marketing. You can make it on the farebox receipts by getting all the volunteer (read free) help you can, watching your expenses, advertise and market judiciously and don't blow large sums on capital projects unless you've got a board raising money for them. Also, a well-run gift shop can add quite a bit to the bottom line without wearing out the equipment. It's called living within your means. Make a budget and stick to it. East Troy Electric Railroad jftrolley@aol.com |
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| Author: | ge13031 [ Mon Sep 16, 2002 5:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Farebox |
Jack: Thanks for the advice ... I consider it worthwhile because your operation (IMHO) is a success. I have preached your operation to our guys and am trying to get them to go up and see it for themselves. What you have accomplished is totally beyond them and they quote rule after rule telling me why .. of course they refuse to see for themselves. lamontdc@adelphia.net |
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