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Ted and Pat -

Thanks very much for this information. I have included a photo of the artifact that we may have from this car. As you can see, it is an aluminum "Hiawatha" emblem. The back had the number 7725 on it and also the words "Lake Keec", with the balance of the Keechelus not readable. This particular name seemed to be a possible fit for the car. My wife's father worked for Pullman in Chicago and this was thrown into a scrap bucket and my father-in-law asked the forman if he could take it, and was told "go ahead". It then passed on to us. As you can see, we have recently put it into one of our display cabinets at the museum. I'd like to be able to get some info on the "Lake Keechelus" including photos of the car when it carried that name, pehaps diagrams and also a photo of CN 2143 "Warpath River" and info on its career after it left the CMStP&P. We would post this info under the "Hiawatha" emblem which, I'm guessing, was located somewhere in the interior of the car, rather than on the outside.

Thanks again.

Les

Author:	Les Beckman [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:13 am ]
Post subject:	Milwaukee Road Pullman?
We have an artifact at HVRM which may be from a Milwaukee Road Pullman car named "Lake Keechelus". Trying to find out: 1. IF such a car existed and, 2. If any photos (interior and/or exterior) exist. Thanks for any help that can be offered. Les Beckman (Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum/North Judson, Indiana)

Author:	Ted Anderson [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 9:25 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Milwaukee Road Pullman?
There was a sleeper Lake Keechelus in the Olympian Hiawatha train, 10 roomettes 3 bedroom BC 3 bedroom BL, Pullman Lot 6775 Plan 4137 (1946 - 1949). Is this your car? See us for drawings and specs, maybe photos. The above information is from Bob Webber's compilation. Sincerely, Ted Anderson IRM Pullman Library

Author:	Pat Fahey [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Milwaukee Road Pullman?
Hi Les In the book The Hiawatha Story by Jim Scribbins on page 260 , in the rolling stock section , it states the car was built by Pullman in 1948 , as a 10 roomettes 6 bedrooms . Also on the same page in 1967 the car was sold to the Canadian National and the car was renamed and became CN , 2143 named Warpath River .

Author:	J3a-614 [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Milwaukee Road Pullman?
Les Beckman wrote: Ted and Pat - Thanks very much for this information. I have included a photo of the artifact that we may have from this car. As you can see, it is an aluminum "Hiawatha" emblem. The back had the number 7725 on it and also the words "Lake Keec", with the balance of the Keechelus not readable. This particular name seemed to be a possible fit for the car. My wife's father worked for Pullman in Chicago and this was thrown into a scrap bucket and my father-in-law asked the forman if he could take it, and was told "go ahead". It then passed on to us. As you can see, we have recently put it into one of our display cabinets at the museum. I'd like to be able to get some info on the "Lake Keechelus" including photos of the car when it carried that name, pehaps diagrams and also a photo of CN 2143 "Warpath River" and info on its career after it left the CMStP&P. We would post this info under the "Hiawatha" emblem which, I'm guessing, was located somewhere in the interior of the car, rather than on the outside. Thanks again. Les How tall is this artifact? My guess is it looks to be about 2 feet tall. That's about the size an external emblem appears in this shot of a model dome car built for this train. http://www.walthers.com/prodimage/0932/ ... 009207.gif And on a coach: http://www.walthers.com/prodimage/0932/ ... 009200.gif We sometimes forget how big railroad equipment is, and how large things like lettering on it can be. I was reminded of this riding a commuter train to Washington, DC. Along the way we were running alongside a freight train, and when such a train is running next to you, perhaps 8 inches away, you realize just how large some emblems and letters are!!

Author:	Les Beckman [ Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Milwaukee Road Pullman?
Thanks very much for the three photos. In the builders photo, it appears from the "shadow", that the Hiawatha emblem is actually the aluminum example, and was not just painted on the car side. But it also appears that the emblem was later removed, perhaps when the car was repainted from orange/maroon to Union Pacific yellow. So perhaps the emblem on display at our museum was actually on the outside of the car after all. Les

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Milwaukee Road Pullman? https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=39218	Page 1 of 3

Author:	Pat Fahey [ Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Milwaukee Road Pullman?
Hi I have a question , how long was the car in service either on CNR or VIA , ? What happen to the car ,,????

Author:	John Redden [ Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Milwaukee Road Pullman?
Les and Group, There is a Pullman database available on line at pullmanproject.com They show the following on this car: Lake Keechelus; War Path River 2143 (nd) In Service 10/22/1948 Plan 4137 Painted to Milw Rd Yellow on 1/31/55 Painted to UP colors on 10/10/57 Sold to Milw Rd LTP on 10/22/48 WFL Date 7/31/1965 Sold to CN (no date given) (There are also some other misc details like truck type, brakes, batteries, etc) JR

Author:	Brian Norden [ Tue Mar 22, 2016 2:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Milwaukee Road Pullman?
From the book Canadian National Railways:Passenger Equipment 1867-1992 here is additional information about the car: sold to CN 12/66 mod. in 1967 to VIA 3/78 stored 1/90 listed for sale 11/90 There were five 10-6 sleepers in this series of ten that were acquired by CN. CN diagram book item S-27 was for this group of cars and it say that they were "Modernized" in 1967. [I do not know what this means.]

Author:	Les Beckman [ Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Milwaukee Road Pullman?
J3a-614 wrote: How tall is this artifact? My guess is it looks to be about 2 feet tall. Just about 18 and a half inches. Les

Author:	filmteknik [ Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Milwaukee Road Pullman?
So they went to Pullman for work before going to CN?

Author:	Dennis Storzek [ Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Milwaukee Road Pullman?
Why would you think that? Typically cars leased to Pullman were maintained by Pullman, but were returned to the owning road when withdrawn from lease; WFL Date 7/31/1965 according to the data Pat dug out of the Pullman Project data base. At that point the sale transaction was between CN and the MILW.

Author:	Topfuel [ Tue Mar 22, 2016 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Milwaukee Road Pullman?
[quote="John Redden"]Les and Group, "Painted to Milw Rd Yellow on 1/31/55 Painted to UP colors on 10/10/57" So what is the difference between "Milw Rd yellow" and "UP colors"??

Author:	Topfuel [ Tue Mar 22, 2016 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Milwaukee Road Pullman?
[quote="Brian Norden"] CN diagram book item S-27 was for this group of cars and it say that they were "Modernized" in 1967. [I do not know what this means.][/quote] One possibility is that I believe these cars were converted from Steam Ejector AC to Electro Mechanical AC after sale to CN. That might qualify as being "modernized".

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