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Extremes in caboose preservation
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=39400		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Richard Glueck [ Sat May 14, 2016 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Extremes in caboose preservation
Just a few images I shot during a trip between Maine, Vermont, and upstate New York, illustrating the regular new of oil and paint on preserved cabeese.

This ex-Erie hack is preserved in upstate New York, on the grounds of a religious retreat. The old caboose is well painted and seems to be in better than "good" condition overall.
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The new two are unfortunates which were purchased as kitchen/distribution centers for a barbecue place in Vermont. I don't have the expertise to identify them, but I'll speculate this is ex-CV. The end sills are rotten and the steps have fallen away. God knows what is cut away on the other side. The restaurant was closed - like long term closed - when I stopped.
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This is the center-cupola mate to the one shown above. Kinda-sorta resided and an expanded kitchen added on back.

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I doubt either of the latter could be repatriated tot he rails, and I also know this is not an uncommon fate for privately purchased retired caboozles. "Ya can't save 'em all". If they should be sold off at some point, the trucks are in good shape and the journals still oiled. Not an entire loss, I suppose. Just an illustration of two extremes in private preservation.

Any identification on the pork-house hacks?

I invite other participants to add their own illustrations of private caboose preservation to this thread.
Author:  philip.marshall [ Sat May 14, 2016 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extremes in caboose preservation
Hi Dick,

Thank you for posting these pictures. I recognize the location of the two in Vermont as the (former) Back Behind Saloon in West Bridgewater, VT, at the intersection of US-4 and VT-100. I remember eating there several times in the 1980s-1990s and the burgers were pretty good, and they were locally famous for their cole slaw. I understand the restaurant later changed hands and became the Smokehouse Diner. I'm disappointed to see the place has closed now and that the cabooses have been allowed to deteriorate so much.

I had also assumed the larger end-cupola one was ex-CV, but "Captive Cabeese in America" by Kirkpatrick lists it as being ex-Rutland. I don't know anything about its smaller center-cupola companion, but I seem to remember it arrived on the property later on (maybe in the late 1980s?), and that may be why Kirkpatrick lists only one caboose at this location.

-Philip Marshall
Author:  Richard Glueck [ Sat May 14, 2016 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extremes in caboose preservation
A Rutland caboose must be a fairly rare bird. Thanks, Phil!
Author:  PMC [ Sat May 14, 2016 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extremes in caboose preservation
I dug out my copy of Jim Shaughnessy's excellent book "The Rutland Road", which is full of photos, and one of those cabooses sure looks like a Rutland caboose: side windows in front of the cupola, no end windows, three windows on the end of the cupola, etc. A VERY rare bird indeed.
Author:  mikefrommontana [ Sat May 14, 2016 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extremes in caboose preservation
Given the tight roof and sound (looking) siding, the first of the two is probably restorable, though it will involve removing the interior and properly restoring the framing cut out for the "doorway" The second car is a mystery, since there is no way to determine how much of the interior and side wall has been cut out.

The roof (IMHO) is the key to the prospect. If it is sound, then likely the rest of the woodwork is going to be sound. Rot is a much worse problem to battle than the ends. I suppose the other important detail to ask is if the cabooses have steel underframes/draft gear pockets.

Given the derelict nature of the two cars, it would behoove interested parties to make an offer on one or the other. They certainly seem a far distance from being totally written off.

Michael Seitz
Missoula MT
Author:  Les Beckman [ Sat May 14, 2016 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extremes in caboose preservation
Dick -

Thanks for posting these photos. I feel I can make this following comment and it will still be in line with the title of this thread. Has anyone, besides me, noticed that when a caboose is put on display with a pair of marker lamps, both lamps will end up on one side of the caboose rather than just at one end? Erie caboose 04947 appears to be another example of this, although I will admit that I can't see the side of the caboose away from the camera. I feel that the arrangement of markers on the same side is done by folks that have no concept as to railroad practice.


Les

P.S. Thanks for including the Black Lab in your Erie photo!
Author:  Dougvv [ Sat May 14, 2016 10:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extremes in caboose preservation
Hi,

Slight tangent.

How many recall the restaurant chain Victoria Station where both a caboose and box cars were built into the upscale eating place?

Doug vV
Author:  robertjohndavis [ Sat May 14, 2016 10:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extremes in caboose preservation
The longer car is believed to be a Rutland van, though I am not aware anyone has figured out which number it carried. Quite a few RUT vans survive.

I have always guessed that the center cupola car was ex D&H, but I have no data to back that up.

Rob
Author:  philip.marshall [ Sat May 14, 2016 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extremes in caboose preservation
Here they are in Google Streetview:

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6003637,-72.7494958,3a,37.5y,208.65h,88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swoxgFE9HPzkSeZfGqWwNVg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I agree, the center cupola one does look D&H.

-Philip Marshall
Author:  Dave [ Sat May 14, 2016 11:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extremes in caboose preservation
All are restorable - platform rot is common and easily repaired. It's just some timbers jointed together and held up with tension rods with flooring laid overtop.
Author:  Richard Glueck [ Sun May 15, 2016 11:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Extremes in caboose preservation
Three more detail shots of the supposed Rutland hack.
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Speaking of Victoria Station, can anyone cite cabooses retrieved from restaurant limbo, and restored to museum or other rail duty?
Author:  robertjohndavis [ Sun May 15, 2016 12:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extremes in caboose preservation
Hi,

The cupola style, step hardware, shallow curve of the platform railing and all other hardware match Rutland vans #42-47. See image here http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3373941

#42 and #45 are still with us in other locations, so this very well could be RUT #43, #44, #46 or #47. I am not ruling out other numbers, just saying these are the most likely fit.

Rob
Author:  rjenkins [ Sun May 15, 2016 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extremes in caboose preservation
According to their website and Facebook page, the Back Behind Restaurant & Barbecue is closed seasonally from April 17 to May 27. Great place, really good food and service, I was just up there in early April.

The caboose built into the side of the building is used as an extension of the main dining room. As you might expect, it does have a large cutout in the side, and its interior has been gutted for dining space.
Author:  Kuyahoora Valley [ Tue May 17, 2016 8:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Extremes in caboose preservation
The ex-Erie hack was previously painted for Napierville Junction. Photo taken Feb 2007.
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Author:  Randy Gustafson [ Tue May 17, 2016 9:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Extremes in caboose preservation
I've probably done more than my fair share of caboose appraisals over the last 20 years. Most are due to donations to museums when the buyer finally decides that they are either never going to restore it properly, or have restored it and don't want to see somebody else bollox it up. You'd be surprised how many museum quality cabooses are NOT the restoration jobs of the museum staff, but done by private individuals that donated the end result.

By this time, the survivors have pretty much settled into the "wow...that's beautiful" and "Oh, this is just so sad"... camps as time is never the friend to either steel or wood. I have really enjoyed doing cabooses as the historic research combined with meeting the owners makes for some memorable encounters.

As some of the survivors slide into the 'sad' category, the market price for sound cabooses has tended to increase. And, the ability to market them online via everything from Ebay to Craigslist has improved liquidity.

We probably have half a dozen in my local county, mostly converted into very rural hunting camps, and some on the verge of collapse. I've seen some of the strangest things imaginable done to what used to be a caboose. But my local nomination for an "extreme" is here...... This was once a rather normal NYC bay window, sold to a local individual that made it into an ice-cream stand (and damaged the frame and steps during the truck move), then had an interior fire at the 'kitchen'...then resold it to a local restaurant as a dining room. I had a local shortline make an offer to convert it back to a shoving platform, and that well may have been kinder than this outcome:
http://www.dinerz.com/legends/

As a card-carrying member of the Santa Fe Historical Society, I never eat there as I manage to loose my appetite every time for some strange reason. At least in fairness to railroads and antique auto buffs, they also butchered a 1949 Cadillac in similar fashion.
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