What kind of HEP in PRR E8 5711/5809?

TCRM6902 · **Joined:** Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:25 pm **Posts:** 5

Hello all, new member of the forum, so I hope I am posting in the right location,
I was curious as anyone knows as to what kind of HEP gensets are in Bennet Levin's E units? They sound like some kind of Detroit Diesel. Does anyone know how many cylinders? I am good friends with a guy that owns an E8 and we were playing around with the idea of installing HEP in it in the future. Problem is the batteries are all back there, so unlike the BN E9s, that had more space in the back, we are kind of tight on space. There are 4 batteries on each side of the back room. We were thinking a 6V71 Detroit might do well for powering a couple of cars, but if anyone knows the Amtrak/Conrail/Levin set up on both the HEP and batteries, I would be interested to know. He might have a more ideal setup than what I am envisioning.

Thanks!

eze240 · **Joined:** Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:29 am **Posts:** 319

I've dealt with some CNW E8 upgrades that used a Cummins v12, provides about 300KW.... the batteries are relocated to the sides by the fuel tank....I'm assuming this is the most common set up...
A 6-71, far as I know they only came in inline layout, should do fine for up to 75kw, perhaps more...you should be able to keep it narrow enough to fit...
Been awhile since I was in the back end of an E though....

Pegasuspinto · **Joined:** Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:43 am **Posts:** 783

71 series detroits came in almost every layout. 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 6V, 8V, 12V, 16V at least.

(BTW I am a standby generator technician in real life)

Our HEP car is a 12V71 non turbo, 275kw. This was able to provide ALL the HEP power on SSW819's excursion trips.
another I worked on is a 16V71, turbo, rated 800kw
yet another is a 4-71 turbo, 135kw
another was a 6-71, turbo, 200kw.

A 6-71 genset is not large at all compared to a locomotive. It would all fit in the bed of a pickup and you would have room to work around it.

E.B. Levin · **Posted:** Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:17 pm

5711 & 5809 both have two separate 12V-71 Detroit plants in the old steam generator room.

Each one shares the cooling water supply with one 645's. The cooling capacity was increased by adding radiator sections and individually controlled fans in what would have been the dynamic brake hatch (if equipped).

No effort was made to increase cooling water capacity but we do overfill the expansion tanks when running in the summer.

The battery boxes were located between the number one truck and fuel tank.

EBL

jamesk · **Posted:** Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:32 am

TCRM6902 wrote:

Problem is the batteries are all back there, so unlike the BN E9s, that had more space in the back, we are kind of tight on space. There are 4 batteries on each side of the back room.

The last of the Milwaukee E9's were built with a Cummins 1710 V12 HEP installed back there, which was roughly a 500KW alternator. The radiators were right above it and expansion tank right behind that. It is very cramped with the batteries back there too, but it fits. I'll have take some pictures of ours sometime if you want to see them.

The BN E9's used an inline 6 cylinder Cummins KTA, but the ~500KW alternator is just as big, so the space saved by the thinner inline engine really doesn't matter once you put that big alternator in there.

Jamie

TCRM6902 · **Joined:** Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:25 pm **Posts:** 5

E.B. Levin wrote:

5711 & 5809 both have two separate 12V-71 Detroit plants in the old steam generator room.

Each one shares the cooling water supply with one 645's. The cooling capacity was increased by adding radiator sections and individually controlled fans in what would have been the dynamic brake hatch (if equipped).

No effort was made to increase cooling water capacity but we do overfill the expansion tanks when running in the summer.

The battery boxes were located between the number one truck and fuel tank.

EBL

Thank you for taking the time to provide that information Mr. Levin! I really do appreciate it! One more question, is the electrical cabinet for the number 2 engine still easily accessible or is it more of a hassle to get to?
Thanks!

TCRM6902 · **Joined:** Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:25 pm **Posts:** 5

jamesk wrote:

TCRM6902 wrote:

Problem is the batteries are all back there, so unlike the BN E9s, that had more space in the back, we are kind of tight on space. There are 4 batteries on each side of the back room.

The last of the Milwaukee E9's were built with a Cummins 1710 V12 HEP installed back there, which was roughly a 500KW alternator. The radiators were right above it and expansion tank right behind that. It is very cramped with the batteries back there too, but it fits. I'll have take some pictures of ours sometime if you want to see them.

The BN E9's used an inline 6 cylinder Cummins KTA, but the ~500KW alternator is just as big, so the space saved by the thinner inline engine really doesn't matter once you put that big alternator in there.

Jamie

Thanks for the info! Yes I would love to see those V12s you have down there. Would be neat to see how they crammed all of that in there.

TCRM6902 · **Joined:** Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:25 pm **Posts:** 5

Pegasuspinto wrote:

71 series detroits came in almost every layout. 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 6V, 8V, 12V, 16V at least.

(BTW I am a standby generator technician in real life)

Our HEP car is a 12V71 non turbo, 275kw. This was able to provide ALL the HEP power on SSW819's excursion trips.
another I worked on is a 16V71, turbo, rated 800kw
yet another is a 4-71 turbo, 135kw
another was a 6-71, turbo, 200kw.

A 6-71 genset is not large at all compared to a locomotive. It would all fit in the bed of a pickup and you would have room to work around it.

That brings me to another question, how many more kw can you squeeze out of a Detroit by adding a turbo? Thanks!

TCRM6902 · **Joined:** Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:25 pm **Posts:** 5

eze240 wrote:

I've dealt with some CNW E8 upgrades that used a Cummins v12, provides about 300KW.... the batteries are relocated to the sides by the fuel tank....I'm assuming this is the most common set up...
A 6-71, far as I know they only came in inline layout, should do fine for up to 75kw, perhaps more...you should be able to keep it narrow enough to fit...
Been awhile since I was in the back end of an E though....

Thanks! I think so. Just have to make sure there is enough room to still get to the electrical cabinet.

CREEPING DEATH · **Joined:** Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:22 pm **Posts:** 275

jamesk wrote:

TCRM6902 wrote:

Problem is the batteries are all back there, so unlike the BN E9s, that had more space in the back, we are kind of tight on space. There are 4 batteries on each side of the back room.

The last of the Milwaukee E9's were built with a Cummins 1710 V12 HEP installed back there, which was roughly a 500KW alternator. The radiators were right above it and expansion tank right behind that. It is very cramped with the batteries back there too, but it fits. I'll have take some pictures of ours sometime if you want to see them.

The BN E9's used an inline 6 cylinder Cummins KTA, but the ~500KW alternator is just as big, so the space saved by the thinner inline engine really doesn't matter once you put that big alternator in there.

Jamie

I was long under the impression that the BN units were rebuilt with 12V71 @ 350 KW, but I've never seen any real evidence - photographic or documentation - except twin mufflers on the roof.

CD

jamesk · **Posted:** Mon Aug 15, 2016 5:04 am

CREEPING DEATH wrote:

I was long under the impression that the BN units were rebuilt with 12V71 @ 350 KW, but I've never seen any real evidence - photographic or documentation - except twin mufflers on the roof.

CD

The three BN units I've been through all have Cummins and a little larger than a 500KW alternator, 531 I think was on the plate. We have a complete genset from one in stock as a spare as well. I'll take some pics of the configuration of the KTA too when I take the pics of the 1710.

CREEPING DEATH · **Joined:** Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:22 pm **Posts:** 275

jamesk wrote:

CREEPING DEATH wrote:

I was long under the impression that the BN units were rebuilt with 12V71 @ 350 KW, but I've never seen any real evidence - photographic or documentation - except twin mufflers on the roof.

CD

The three BN units I've been through all have Cummins and a little larger than a 500KW alternator, 531 I think was on the plate. We have a complete genset from one in stock as a spare as well. I'll take some pics of the configuration of the KTA too when I take the pics of the 1710.

Maybe more than one HEP engine was used, or they used something else on the later units. I remember seeing a BN rebuild - 9903 to be precise - in The Contemporary Diesel Spotter's Guide with twin mufflers over the HEP engine, which can been seen in color here: http://transport.castlegraphics.com/dis ... p?pid=1866
I looked online at other 9900-seies rebuilds, they lack the twin mufflers that 9903 was equipped with.
BN 9904 has twin mufflers here: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... ?id=975391
But not here: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... ?id=975391
That second link has some info about this unit, as well, IC/CN 101 later in life.
BN 9913 with no apparent muffler or stack for the HEP engine: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=2688463
Any have any manuals?

CD