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Cagney locomotives
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=39699		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  John T [ Wed Aug 17, 2016 7:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Cagney locomotives
Here are three photos of miniature steam locomotives that ran in Seattle.

Madison park train (1905) http://digitalcollections.lib.washingto ... 714/rec/40

White City train 1908-12
https://sherrlock.files.wordpress.com/2 ... n-web1.jpg

Photograph of 4-4-2 #2526? Lettered SBB&ORR
http://digitalcollections.lib.washingto ... 714/rec/40

The first two are Cagney Brothers and may be the same engine (12" gauge?) Can anybody identify the maker of the third?
Author:  sc 'doc' lewis [ Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cagney locomotives
John T:

Your link on #1, while labeled 1905, takes me to the same image from 1947 that you have as link #3...John Rimmasch may be able to help you with identification...I'll let him know of your posting.

sc 'doc' lewis
Author:  John T [ Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cagney locomotives
Sorry about the mixup. Here is the link to the 1905 view.

https://sherrlock.files.wordpress.com/2 ... 9-web1.jpg

One guess is that the 1947 view is a Bud Hurlbert locomotive but I can't find anything on them.
Author:  John E. Rimmasch [ Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cagney locomotives
The one engine that could be a Hulbert could also be a Wagner. It could also be a full scratch build. I have heard of a builder in the Pacific Northwest who built a few locomotives but the details as to who he was or how many he actually built are very few and far between.

The two Cagney Locomotives;

The two Cagney 15 inch Class D locomotives are not the same unit unless of course, the photos were taken at far different times in far different locations. Items that stand out to me that show that these are not the same locomotive are as follows;

The one locomotive has a number on it, 09. The number shows up on the dome, the cab and the tender.

The other locomotive has no designs on the tender tank where as the other does. You will notice the one locomotive has some letters or words on the tender tank with an outline and the other only has 09 on the tank, no outline or other marks.

09 has a head lamp. It appears to be an automobile or carriage lamp. This was common. It also has a holder for the lamp. the other locomotive has no head lamp and it does not have the holder or rod for the head lamp.

Now, both locomotives do have a raised seat on the tender. There were a number of variations of these seats on Cagney locomotives/tenders.

Other items I normally look at to tell if locomotives are the same from one picture to another is the front truck, the pilot and the tender trucks. Believe it or not, these items had a lot of variation even when built new by the Cagney Brothers. There were no less than 3 patterns for the pilots. The front truck or pilot wheels had two to three patterns and the tender trucks had a variety of sizes of wheels. Interestingly enough in these pictures the pilot, pilot truck wheels and the tender trucks look almost identical. I suspect....though I can not prove that these two locomotive could both be 1904 worlds fair units that were returned after the fair and then sold to new homes after the fair and that both may have come from the same building batch.

I have three 1904's sitting in our shop right now and have touched or worked on a bunch of them. I often wish they could just talk to me and tell me which one is which. Is the 09 the 9th unit of the 1904's? One of mine is numbered 4 but only because I gave it that number. One of the locomotives we have at the shop came from Coney Island as it has all of the nickle plated items that we see in the Coney Island locomotives.

Hope this helps. Great pictures, great find. I have added them to my Cagney Photo files.

Kindly,

JohnE.
Author:  John T [ Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cagney locomotives
Thanks John. The 1905 photo was The Great Northern Miniature Railway Co. which was incorporated in July 1903. The other photo was taken a few blocks away and a few years later. It is the Lake Shore Miniature RR Co. In late 1903 the owner of the GNMRy also had a plan for a 22" gauge road here in Seattle. The specs for the locomotive were very specific: 4-4-0, 3x6 cylinders, two 00 Korting injectors, 15" drivers, weight about 2800 pounds.
Does this match the Cagney Model E?
Author:  Bobharbison [ Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cagney locomotives
John T wrote:
Sorry about the mixup. Here is the link to the 1905 view.

https://sherrlock.files.wordpress.com/2 ... 9-web1.jpg

One guess is that the 1947 view is a Bud Hurlbert locomotive but I can't find anything on them.


Interesting track design on that one, almost a strap rail system. I can't quite make out if it's a tiny T rail or just some flat stock on top of the wood beam. I wonder if the entire track was like that, or if this is just a sort of tiny trestle over that low spot? Reminds me of a wooden roller coaster in a way.
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