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Weber Insulated Rail Joints
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Author:  Larry Lovejoy [ Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Weber Insulated Rail Joints
Does anybody out there have any “Weber” insulated joints in active track? See an example at this link:

http://prr.railfan.net/signalstandards/ ... y=1&rr=all

If so, what are you using for the insulating fibre? Also, did you whittle the filler blocks out of wood as shown on that drawing or have you found a better material?

/s/ Larry
Lawrence G. Lovejoy, P.E.
Author:  rcw7585 [ Fri Sep 16, 2016 4:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Weber Insulated Rail Joints
Larry Lovejoy wrote:
Does anybody out there have any “Weber” insulated joints in active track? See an example at this link:

http://prr.railfan.net/signalstandards/ ... y=1&rr=all

If so, what are you using for the insulating fibre? Also, did you whittle the filler blocks out of wood as shown on that drawing or have you found a better material?

/s/ Larry
Lawrence G. Lovejoy, P.E.


I ran across intact Weber bars a couple years back out in Levelland, Texas on West Texas & Lubbock's Whiteface sub. They were not being used as IJs, however... these were the bars the track was laid with, in 1925. For being nearly 80 years old... most of the blocking was surprisingly effective. I priced out having new blocks made, as opposed to what the RR was doing, removing 2 sets of bars and making one, with 8 egg-shaped holes total... that the lockwashers would cock into over time and then the joint was loose again and all that labor was for nothing.

Image

Image

As far as insulated bars, I would imagine, at a minimum, the fiberglass block style would have replaced Webbers. I would be more interested in where you would source the "papers" for those Type "W" IJs, as they would be worn out before the wood block, for sure.

I found it difficult recently to simply get replacement plastic sheet insulation for a insulated bridal (gage) plate that Pohl made... not terribly long ago... vendors were making it out like you hade to buy a whole new plate assembly.

Um... no.

R.C. Whitehead
Author:  Bartman-TN [ Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Weber Insulated Rail Joints
The standard Weber joint is not insulated. The wood block is there with the design that it will swell from moisture and hold the metal joint bar tight against the rail.

The insulated Weber joint bars have an additional wrap between the rail and the joint bar, plus wraps around the bolts. I haven't seen an insulated Weber joint in decades, but see the traditional bars in a number of places. I saw the ones near Lubbock a number of years ago when I ran a charter train over the entire shortline. I have also seen them around Chattanooga (TN) in the past year.
Author:  Rob Gardner [ Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Weber Insulated Rail Joints
Rod,

I too have seen a similar if not identical design of steel wrapped wood core joint bar used on 80# and 85# rail on the old Maine Central RR's lower yard in Rockland, Maine many years ago. They were used as a standard joint bar. I do not recall seeing an insulated variant, but that could just be the cobwebs of time talking.

Rob Gardner
Author:  Dennis Storzek [ Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Weber Insulated Rail Joints
The East Troy line of the TMER&LCo was built with Webber joints. The first time my buddy and I railfanned the line, long before there was any museum there, we found the M-15 out on the line doing joint maintenance. The guy on the ground took the joint apart, and handed the rotten filler to the guy waiting on the car, who then took a pre-cut oak blank from under the workbench (the M-15 had a workshop of sorts inside) and traced the hole locations with a pencil. He then clamped it in a vise and used a auger and hand brace to drill the holes. When finished he handed it back down to the guy who was waiting to reassemble the joint. I'll tell you, these guys had a division of labor like they were members of two different craft unions. They also had a combined age somewhere north of 150 years.

I would imagine the current museum operation is still using those joints, as I can't see going to the expense of changing them all out. Wonder what they are using for fillers now-a-days?
Author:  S Bartlett [ Sat Sep 17, 2016 9:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Weber Insulated Rail Joints
85# Webber joints were common on the Boston and Maine. We been replacing worn bolts and broken bars on Webber joints on our House Track in Shelburne Falls MA, an old B&M yard, this week. At this point we're just tightening 'em up, but we may make some oak fillers at some point. But I hadn't seen the insulated variety.
Author:  David Johnston [ Sun Sep 18, 2016 3:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Weber Insulated Rail Joints
Larry, the original material is probably hard fiber, aka vulcanized fiber, which is probably still a reasonable replacement today. I have not used this material on a Weber joint, but I have made parts for gauge bars and switch hardware out of this material. For the sharp bend it might be formed on a break. If not it can be steamed, bent over a form and then dried on the form. It is not particularly water resistant and longer life will be obtained by painting the material with a urethane coating. I have seen the material painted with glyptal. It is available from McMaster-Carr. They also have some online data sheets. Franklin Fiber is also a possible source.
Author:  Howard P. [ Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Weber Insulated Rail Joints
Ugh. And I thought the NH 107# "wrap-around" joints were the world's worst joint bars....

I know many B&M branchlines are/were full of these things.
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