In the process of sorting through a bunch of info related to other projects on my desk here, I happened to blunder upon this online "advertisement" for a volunteer rail preservation operation seeking qualified "Train Conductors" for their excursions. I'm not identifying the operation because that's really irrelevant to my point (I hope).

They were wise enough to put the following in their notice:



Now, I'm thinking down the railfan retirees I happen to know, and not that many would qualify for this work. This even looks like a position they might have trouble filling if they offered minimum wage as an enticement--which I know some non-profits around here have had to do to keep a schedule dependably filled, the doors opened and closed as scheduled, etc.

Now, train "conductor" seems to be one of those jobs, along with engineer, that "every railfan volunteer" wants instead of the equally necessary drudgery of ticket-seller, rust-grinder, or track spiker.

Is this place unusual, or are other operations having trouble filling positions? Has any place of late had to cancel runs for lack of a qualified or large enough crew? And has any non-profit operation, as of yet, had to resort to dangling financial incentives in front of ostensible "volunteers" to keep operations going dependably? (Disregard paid administration, contracted services, etc.)

I'm curious, which one of those requirements do you think is unfair or unreasonable for the position? BTW, the job description at my favorite RR includes "able to lift 75 pounds", fortunately they haven't made me prove I can do it...

We tend to have a pretty dedicated and adequate group of people who like to come out and run trains. I am surprised at a lack of people who want to work on the coaches and equipment....these are big projects and take a lot of effort and dedication. We do have a core group of trackworkers, but always could use a few more!

My experience is that the model railroaders and railfans are pretty distinct groups and there is little cross-over into the rail museum and/or shortline/heritage railroad operations groups. There is a big railroad club locally, we NEVER see any of that club's members out at the shortline. Likewise, there are local railfans following every NS train in the area and posting its minute-by-minute whereabouts on Facebook ......we never see them at the shortline either on a volunteer workday.

This ^^^ It is a proven fact that talking about it on Facebook is much more fun than actually doing it.

None of it is "unfair." They have to retain the right to set standards, especially if they know their ridership (school groups? lots of kids apt to run off the car?). For the weight requirement, I have no idea if they're talking about throwing switch levers, picking up little kids, hoisting Grandma's wheelchair over a gap, or what.

I do know, anecdotally, about another operation that had to sadly tell one or two of its enthusiastic volunteers that they were simply physically unfit for their duty as train crew any more, and I'm sure many an operation out there is "putting up" with an engineer, motorman, etc. whose eyesight or reflexes are rapidly declining, maybe to the point of scary levels, just because either no one has the guts to tell "Ol' Joe" that he just doesn't "have it" any more and/or because no one else shows up as reliably and dependably as he does.

There's also an availability factor. "Good" retirees, the kind who volunteer at non-profits, all tell me they're far busier in retirement than they were working, between church, civic groups, family, hobbies, and the fun they put off for decades working 9 to 5. True, some folks find themselves needing a predictable routine, for which a work shift one or two days a week would be a plus. But not every one.

I work occasionally with one non-profit that has "work shifts" from 10 to 2 four days a week. They later found that they had to pay certain key people a pay rate slightly above minimum wage to get them to show up reliably and dependably--the guys with enough backbone to lift things and load/unload a truck, or with a car to show up on time, for example. The non-profit had to be convinced that the "all-volunteer" model wasn't working. The funding they diverted to that pay was more than made up with increased "productivity," revenue stream, and results.

I am not certain whether a shortage is looming or if the potential for it is a constant.

I do not believe that Brother Mitchell meant, either expressly or implicitly, that any of the requirements were onerous. The problem is that the pool of volunteers often appears to lean toward the superannuated retiree such as yours truly.

While I am in good health, exercise regularly and so forth and in what my physician describes somewhat backhandedly as "excellent shape for someone of your age", Significant Other has seen fit to remind me that I may not still be quite what I want to think I was at twenty-four. Could I meet those requirements as written? Yes certainly. Do I still have the stamina I had as youngster to do a full twelve hours for four days straight on a regular basis? While I would like to think so the honest answer is "Probably not." More importantly, four days of operation represents the equivalent of a full work week and why should I?

Believe it or not we have other things to do than work another full time job for free. What this really means is that if you are dealing with retirees (see Note) as Brother Mitchell suggests, to maintain sustained operations you need a qualified volunteer pool many, many times larger than than the number of operating positions.

Note: This should not be taken to mean that retirees are any less suitable as volunteers than a younger base. All sets of demographics have their own challenges and a younger demographic base has to schedule their free work around their paid work. Remember that with volunteers you are running a business without paying the help and that is itself a major challenge.

GME

I'm convinced there is a good pool of young volunteers out there. Many operations prove it with a pretty young workforce, while others have no young blood and their members are dropping like flies.

Personally, I withdrew myself from engine service after a health emergency that left me retired ten years early and on heart meds.

My health is good, but I'm not about to become one of those doddering old fellows who can't do the job right but refuses to let go. Yes, I miss it, but I refuse to put anybody else at risk should something happen to my health.

What I see as the biggest roadblock to attracting young, dedicated volunteers is the attitude so many elderly volunteers and museum officers toward them.

I personally have witnessed this too many times to count from cranky octogenarians, and the museum has lost out on large numbers of enthusiastic, hardworking young men and women as a result. All too often, these same characters fill the board, and schedule meetings for midweek, early afternoon, when everybody under 65 has to be at work and they know those "radical new ideas" can't infect "their" museum.

I'm not old, 57, but that's old enough to be seen as "aged" by some of the young blood. I have always encouraged younger volunteers, not hogging choice tasks but sharing the fun, and doing my best to "pass the torch" while I could, before I became "one of those old codgers"... but my attitude will always be one of supporting the new blood.

I think if we all adopt the supportive, welcoming model, we will have no worries about the sustainability of our volunteer workforces.

Steve Hunter

I'm working with a couple groups now - one doesn't want to recruit volunteers since they are putting off fund raising until certain civic things have properly aligned. I think it's a mistake, but it's not my call....... we could raise a little bit of money - maybe about $20,000 - and keep 4 or 5 volunteers busy and prepare ourselves for when things do break loose. I like being ahead of the curve...

Anyhow the other group has been around for a very long time, has some new blood coming in and lost some old blood by attrition, which is natural. What hasn't changed is the management of the organization. In the 1980s an operating train was set up to run one weekend a month, and did fairly well. The operating strategy was to make a lot of crew positions to give everybody a chance to take part in running the trains, which was all that anybody wanted to do. 35 years later, the operation had gone through a steep decline as other things came along to interest people and the programming didn't evolve in response. 15 years ago steam operation was added which resuscitated the operation. Within the past 5 years a lot of special event programming was developed which further increased visitation. What didn't keep up with the growth in necessary workload was the number of available workers or the management structure to prioritize and plan the build of the new programming.

Unfortunately, the old high staffing model for the operation hasn't changed. You don't need two car hosts on each open air excursion car, for example. A crew of several people telling visitors where and how to park could be covered by simply chalk lining the field that is the lot. Coming up with the crew has become a legitimate problem - but one that we could solve with proven techniques common on other operations. Working volunteers on mechanical and restoration projects are even fewer - and they find it hard to get much work done without decent facilities in which to get work done. If half the time you fight the site before you turn a wrench, a lot of time is wasted and frustration chases away potential volunteers.

If you want to succeed you have to keep reinventing your operation such that you make it easier to succeed.

And, there are always jobs that can be done by people with age-related physical limitations, and others. Somebody in a wheelchair can be a great tour guide if you have decent paved pathways, which you should for your visitors in any case.

I'm very happy that we hired a strong young guy to relieve me on the graveyard shift at work - he comes in early, helps me with any heavy work I have trouble doing any more, and I teach him the plant and how to keep it running in return. This is how it should be - working together so everybody benefits and positions the operation for a seamless transition into the future.

I agree that there are many good, younger volunteers out there. I see a couple reasons why there seems to be shortages, though.
First, people's jobs have changed. I know very few people that work a 8 hour a day, 5 day a week job. Most people I know are required to work some weekends, evenings or be on call. Long hours and inconsistent schedules seems to be a growing trend. Makes it hard to volunteer for something that has a set schedule. This has been the biggest hurdle for setting up crews, both work and train service.
Second, generational gap issues, as stated above, are a problem. We are dealing with this right now. It is proving to be difficult. The older, retired volunteers can dedicate more time for certain things, but there are a few that are driving younger members away because of how they are treating them
Third, I have seen many younger members not return because of a group lacking organization, or direction, or not having the proper tools and equipment for a job. This is what I have been dealing with the most. The organization I am with is in a slow recovery from theft of tools and equipment, lack of maintanance for a few years and some bad decisions at the top. Our Mech. and MOW departments have had to combine just to have enough people to try and keep up. I have also been filling in on train crew when there are shortages. It is tough, but I see it getting a little better, if these issues can be addressed.

I see several problems:
1. We have about 125 members, but only about 25 volunteer on a regular basis.
2. It seems like fewer people want to join a club etc. anymore.
3. People do get burned out.
4. We need workers that are willing to take on a project and lead.
5. I talked to a couple of retirees today, and they said they had never ridden a train. It seems like a lot of our business is grandparents bringing the grandkids out to ride the train. Fewer grandparents coming out in the future?

We have had a Boy Scout program for over 20 years. We get some new members from that program. They tend to stay around awhile. Though a few have gotten married and gotten a job on a class one and can't come out as often.

Tom Hamilton

I started volunteering at 15. I've put in thousands of hours since then, and I'm now 18. Unfortunately I've noticed a lack of new volunteers that "stick" around, especially younger ones. All of our young ones, with the exception of a few, had "problems" with the general public and themselves...

Everyone is freaking out, saying there's gonna be no volunteers left after everyone dies. I feel like the cycle will continue for a while. A few new younger volunteers will stick around, a bunch of people will retire and join, and a bunch will die. A never ending cycle as far as I can tell...

As for the railfan community who tracks every conductors last breath, if they join an organization, they're gonna want to run trains and play and... Yeah...

- Christian B.

The group I am with is a transportation history museum which is more oriented on streetcars and transit buses. We accomplished our initial goal which was to get streetcars back in Tucson, Arizona as a primary transit mode. We are approaching the point where we will begin certification work of our 1924 Brill on the SunLink system.

More importantly, we are partnering with the county vocational trade instruction program that the several area school districts participate in. One of our Directors is a Director on the Joint Technical Education District/Development program that oversees all of the vocational training programs. We are working on developing an additional vocational training program that will build on the education that the shop students receive in school. Currently we have recruited two retired auto shop instructors and are developing the curriculum for the program. We have used paid student interns in the past from a county funded vocational training program and will soon have to have several projects going simultaneously in order to provide sufficient work for the students.

Involvement with vocational education is important in ensuring that the future workforce has the skills necessary to obtain good paying technical jobs. It also exposes us to more potential volunteers/donors and demonstrates the value of our organization-yes, we're getting people to work on our projects but the students are learning and practicing the skills that will land them a good paying job. When they apply to a potential employer, they can say that they have experience working on heavy industrial equipment and can point to the work they did on our vehicles as proof.

I am curious about the requirement to move 50 pounds - why would a volunteer conductor need to do that? I have worked as a volunteer conductor many times and never had to lift anything. Even back when I was 25 or 30 lifting 50 pounds and moving it a distance would have been challenging to me. This requirement alone would preclude most (even healthy) volunteers.

Chris.

Oh look it's this thread again.

I'll run and hide after saying this. It's not meant to be serious although there might be a grain of truth in it...

With their highly skilled amateur volunteer hoggers, the conductors have to carry and change a lot of coupler knuckles, so they need to be fit!

;-)

Steve Hunter