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| Old steam locomotive headlight; authentic? https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=39897 |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Sun Oct 09, 2016 1:44 pm ] | ||||
| Post subject: | Old steam locomotive headlight; authentic? | ||||
Recently, the Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum received a most generous donation from the Lake Shore Model Railroad Club located on the southeast side of Chicago. This donation consisted of a steam locomotive bell (which I'll put on a separate thread) and an old "box type" kerosene headlight. My first thought was that this was a replication of an old headlight, rather than one that actually had been on a 19th century steam locomotive, but once it was moved to HVRM in North Judson and I had a chance to look it over, I'm now not so sure. Pictured are some photos. The first shows the headlight itself. Note the "No. 2" on the side. I think that this was painted later, perhaps on a display locomotive that carried this number, and most likely NOT the number of the engine that the headlight was originally on, if it IS authentic. Upon opening the headlight case, I found the tag shown in the second photo. Note the patent dates. The earliest is 1877, the latest is 1893 which would indicate that the headlight was built after that 1893 date. I guess that this label could have been put on a replication, but I wonder why anyone would do that since most folks would never see it. Also, anyone have any information of this "United States Head-Light Company" of Buffalo, New York? Was there such an outfit? Finally, the last photo shows the tank for the kerosene that fed the lamp. Again, a rather interesting arrangement, that MIGHT have been used if this was built as a replication. But, was this the type of tank that was used on this type headlight back then when they were originally built? Any ideas as to the answers to these questions, would be greatly appreciated. Finally, if this headlight IS authentic, then the question is where did it come from? The guys at the Lake Shore Club say that it, and the bell, "have always been there" and their memberships there go back to the 1970's. The club seems to have no records of a letter with an explanation as to who the donor might have been, although it seems that they believe it might have been the Illinois Central Railroad. Maybe someday they'll actually find something, but I have to think that that probably won't happen. Mystery is out there. Any mystery solvers? Les
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| Author: | mldeets [ Sun Oct 09, 2016 2:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old steam locomotive headlight; authentic? |
Hi Les, Neat lamp & a very generous donation. A quick look by Google brought up this listing from an 1897 Street Railway Journal: https://books.google.com/books?id=YYhNA ... rk&f=false . They are talking about electric lamps and their listing states a home of Utica, NY. I don't know my eastern goegraphy well enough to guess if they companies are actually related. The shape of the oil font doesn't surprise me too much. It was just shaped to fit around the reflector. Looking forward to any other information that can be brought to "light"....mld |
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| Author: | Dick_Morris [ Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old steam locomotive headlight; authentic? |
I didn't find United States Headlight Company in Buffalo directories for 1890, 1897, or 1898. In 1899, was "United States Head Light Co., 39 Perry" and in 1900, "United States Headlight Co. (H.S. Teal sec. and gen mgr.) manfrs. of headlights for every service, 39-41 Perry" The should set the earliest date of manufacture. A Google search for "United States Headlight Company" and Buffalo turns up a number of hits. |
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| Author: | DJSullivan [ Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old steam locomotive headlight; authentic? |
Should you be so inspired, it is easy enough to search patents in google by patent date. It looks authentic to me. |
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| Author: | Overmod [ Mon Oct 10, 2016 11:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old steam locomotive headlight; authentic? |
Scott Trostel noted over a decade ago that this manufacturer was an affiliate of Barney and Smith, and published a list of patents that included those for headlights. That might be a good starting place to analyze some of the design features or narrow down the potential date range. I have to wonder whether the "No. 2" might refer to a size or model/stock number rather than a locomotive number. |
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| Author: | Train Detainer [ Mon Oct 10, 2016 11:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old steam locomotive headlight; authentic? |
I've collected several kerosene headlights from different manufacturers and I see no reason from the above pics to think it a repro. The fount is typical, the reflector is spun, the vent appears to be attached in a period manner and it looks like the base appears to be wood. Would need more detail pics of construction for further eval. Questions - Have you pulled the lamp assembly out? Look for stampings/labels/embossing on the fount and pinion wheel. Not all manufacturers labeled their founts, but many did. What's the lense diameter? Do you have a close-up pic of the burner head? Does it appear to have been repainted or original finish? It appears the 'No. 2' lettering is on a removable panel. Is there a similar feature on the other side? Removable panels would have been replaceable with glass number boards if desired by the customer. (A different reflector with small holes to either side of the flame cone would provide illumination.) The No. 2 painted on the side and general condition would indicate to me that this light was probably an advertising/salesman's sample. No. 2 would be the style/model/pattern number shown in catalogues. |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Mon Oct 10, 2016 5:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old steam locomotive headlight; authentic? |
The idea that the "No. 2" could reference a stock number or salesman's sample are interesting possibilities. Would be nice to have a catalogue from this Barney & Smith affiliate. Wonder if any still exist? I'll see if I can determine the lens diameter, although we are running our pumpkin trains at this time which is about the busiest we are at the museum all year, so I may not have time to check it out next Saturday. Les |
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| Author: | NKP779 [ Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old steam locomotive headlight; authentic? |
I own a similar model and everything I see in the photos looks authentic. |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old steam locomotive headlight; authentic? |
NKP779 wrote: I own a similar model and everything I see in the photos looks authentic. NKP779 - Do you know your headlights history? Is there a "locomotive" number on it? One other thought occurred to me. I recently saw a photo of a wood bodied "observation" car. Not a passenger car, but some type of rather crude inspection vehicle, probably built by the railroad. Don't know the railroad, but it had a two or three digit number as I recall. What was interesting was that, up on the roof, was a similar headlight to the one in this thread! Got me to thinking that, in addition to the "No. 2" possibly being a stock, model or similar number, perhaps the No. 2 was on a dynometer or other type special car. Possibilities abound! Les |
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| Author: | Mikechoochoo [ Sat Oct 15, 2016 10:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old steam locomotive headlight; authentic? |
It may also be a traction engine headlight, how big is the lens. Mike N. |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old steam locomotive headlight; authentic? |
Mikechoochoo wrote: It may also be a traction engine headlight, how big is the lens. Mike N. Mike - I got a chance to measure the lens yesterday at HVRM. It's a bit over 23" diameter measured from the "outside" with the glass diameter measuring a bit over 22 inches. Les |
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