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Pyle-National Co. #1417 Steam Locomotive Headlight
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=40270		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  JAyC [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Pyle-National Co. #1417 Steam Locomotive Headlight
Hello, I am new to railroads and railroad equipment so I hope you'll bear with me. I have an elderly friend, living in NW Oregon, who up until about a year ago owned and operated a private steam engine. He gave away 2 miles of track, and one of the engines, but still has a bunch of extraneous parts, and maybe a couple of cars, that he is potentially looking to sell. He's hired me to handle much of his personal sale, (other than railroad equipment), and now would like me to consider the railroad parts as well. Since I am new to railroad parts and equipment I thought I would go to the source and ask my questions.

For those interested in answering my questions please understand that I already know that something is worth what someone is willing to pay for it when I'm ready to sell it. So I'm not asking for prices but sale-ability of specific parts; are they in high demand and can I reach buyers through this, or other, venues? Any honest help would be much appreciated!

To begin he has a Pyle-National #1417 headlight that came off a 3’ engine from Tuolumne. It was functioning when removed.

Attachments:
File comment: Open side view #1417
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File comment: Top view #1417
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File comment: Open view #1417
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2 Pyle.jpg [ 60.08 KiB | Viewed 14676 times ]
File comment: side view #1417
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1 pyle.jpg [ 49.33 KiB | Viewed 14676 times ]
Author:  Steve DeGaetano [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pyle-National Co. #1417 Steam Locomotive Headlight
JAyC,

Yes, there is a very strong market for railroad-related items (collectively known as "railroadiana"). That headlight will definitely sell, and should bring a good price.

There is a "classifieds" section of this board where you can list it for sale.
Author:  philip.marshall [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pyle-National Co. #1417 Steam Locomotive Headlight
If, as you say, the headlight came off a 3' gauge engine at Tuolumne, CA, that implies a connection to the West Side Lumber Company. If correct, this would certainly add to its value among collectors. Is there any documentation to back it up?

-Philip Marshall
Author:  JAyC [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pyle-National Co. #1417 Steam Locomotive Headlight
Thank you for such fast replies! I will check on the origin of the headlight; I expect the owner knows. When you say "adds to the value" is that something like a signed, first edition book (making the book many times more valuable than an unsigned first edition) or more like a Tiffany diamond ring versus a Jared diamond ring of similar quality...maybe 20% to 30% more valuable? (I know this is a weird comparison but it's about all I can come up with off the bat). The answer, however, will give me some idea of how hard I need to work to prove-up the origin of the light.

Again, thank you!!
Author:  Howard P. [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pyle-National Co. #1417 Steam Locomotive Headlight
Nice headlight.

Unless an item is "marked" (stamped or embossed) with a particular railroad name, or it has some distinct means of ID, (for example on a headlight with side number boards, the actual number would correlate to a particular engine), it is simply a nice Pyle-National plain-style headlight in apparent good condition. If there is a bill of sale from West Side Lumber, that might help, but one could say this came off any number of engines and be correct.

Items from certain railroads command higher prices than others; any marked item commands higher price than an unmarked item. Lanterns were commonly marked, headlights not.

Many items sold through the classified section on this website wind up actually being used on restoration of vintage rail equipment, (rather than going into someone's personal collection) so that may influence your actions.

Howard P.
Author:  philip.marshall [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pyle-National Co. #1417 Steam Locomotive Headlight
I think the comparison to rare books or fine jewelry is at best imperfect (and the supposed "rarity" of diamonds is just a fiction supported by advertising anyway, since diamonds are actually far from rare). The railroadiana market is probably closer to being like that for sports memorabilia or perhaps militaria, in which the value of an item is bound to certain historical associations in the imagination of the buyer, and the connection that object has to legendary figures or events of the past.

I don't know enough to talk about specific dollar values, but a Pyle-National locomotive headlight in nice condition but of uncertain origin or provenance is definitely a collector's item that will be worth something on the market, but there are others out there and it's far from unique. (And as Howard P. notes above, it might be of interest to any number of railroad museums looking for parts for a restoration project, which might be something the owner is interested in supporting.) However, if the owner can demonstrate a connection to the West Side Lumber Co. (a logging railroad famous around the world), that could make it something really special for collectors and historians and place it in a different class of objects.

-Philip Marshall
Author:  Loco112 [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pyle-National Co. #1417 Steam Locomotive Headlight
Its vintage is aprox. 1920-1923 It certainly looks like the headlights used on the Westside shays. They appear somewhat shorter in length, and there's that side cover, both those features are extremely rare! Its history of coming off one of those shays should be relatively simple to prove. If you have any other part or any other documentation the Westside lineage will be relatively straightforward. Even with no proof I'd believe it, because of the rarity of the two features from the stock P-N headlight of the timeframe.

Without the heritage, its worth about $300-500 if the lenses and reflector are in really good condition. I bought a beat up one for $70 a few years ago.

A Westside collector might pay a lot more, maybe over $1000, maybe not, give it a try.
Author:  sc 'doc' lewis [ Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pyle-National Co. #1417 Steam Locomotive Headlight
JAy

As part of your continuing research you may want to take a look at the website "Railroad Memories"http://www.railroadmemories.com, an auction site of railroad related items started by the late Bill Knous and his wife Sue. Sue has the results of about 45 of the 97 auctions held posted. Your headlight would typically be posted under the category of "Depot and Train". The other categories may give you an idea of the value of your friend's accumulation...these, of course, from the side of the individual who collects rather than implements the item into a restoration. You should get a good idea of the value difference between items that have a proven provenance (e.g. 'marked') and generic items ('unmarked').

sc 'doc' lewis
Author:  JAyC [ Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pyle-National Co. #1417 Steam Locomotive Headlight
Thank you all for such quick and informative responses. I will certainly be back here again as we sift through the equipment the seller has in his warehouse.

Again, thank you all!
Author:  JAyC [ Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pyle-National Co. #1417 Steam Locomotive Headlight
Mr. Marshall was right on the money. I contacted the owner regarding the provenance of the headlight and he wrote me back the following:

"The engine was at West Side Lumber Co. from the late 20’s to sometime in the late 50’s or early 60’s.. At that time (the late 60’s) The West Side operations were owned by Fibreboard Corporation of San Francisco of which my father was a director. So, when I bought the 2 steam engines, I bought them from Fibreboard"

Again, thank you!
Author:  Dave [ Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pyle-National Co. #1417 Steam Locomotive Headlight
Burying the lead: do you have 2 steam engines to dispose of?
Author:  JAyC [ Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pyle-National Co. #1417 Steam Locomotive Headlight
Not at the moment; the owner donated one of the engines and just had the boiler repaired on the other...he hasn't said what he has planned for that engine. He does have a caboose that he may be selling.

J.
Author:  Jason Whiteley [ Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pyle-National Co. #1417 Steam Locomotive Headlight
Is there a small copper tag on the side? It may have a RR Record number on it that may help identify who it was made for. I've yet to find a database that has all the different codes for these numbers but perhaps your local group can help. If so, you'll have the proof you need.

Jason
Author:  JAyC [ Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pyle-National Co. #1417 Steam Locomotive Headlight
Just to let anyone interested know, this Pyle National head light has just been listed, for auction, on eBay. Although I'm not going to list the link, the listing is titled,

West Side Lumber Company 3' Shay #8 Steam Locomotive Pyle National Headlight

The seller wants to begin by listing this item first. I want to thank all who provided information for your help!

J.
Author:  krumreich, Ted [ Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pyle-National Co. #1417 Steam Locomotive Headlight
Mr. JAy C: Westside Lumber Company Shay No. 8 is owned by Lindsay and Rosa Ashby (the former operators of the Georgetown Loop Railroad in Colorado) and currently on display in Canon City, CO.
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