There used to be two GTW heavyweights by the side of the road in Crooked Lake, on Rt. 31 just north of Petoskey. From the outside they appeared to be in pretty good shape. Assuming they're still there, does anyone know who owns them or what plans for them there might be? Just curious.

Thanks.

I just happen to be heading up to Mackinaw City in a few moments. I will check in crooked lake to see if they are there on my way home.

Dave Sutter

> There used to be two GTW heavyweights by the
> side of the road in Crooked Lake, on Rt. 31
> just north of Petoskey. From the outside
> they appeared to be in pretty good shape.
> Assuming they're still there, does anyone
> know who owns them or what plans for them
> there might be? Just curious.

> Thanks.


Michigan Transit Museum
sutterd@hotmail.com

Presumably the cars are still there. They were brought there on the Penn Central in the early 1970's for use as summer cabins, but never hacked up (nor maintained, either). A few weeks ago a Michigan car dealer and tourist-line promoter told me he'd talked with the new owner of the property they're on, who said that he would like to restore at least one. A similar car at Bellaire was scrapped about 10 years ago.

These are from a large number of GTW heavyweight coaches that became surplus in the 1970's as the GTW intercity trains were cancelled under Amtrak and the Pontiac-Detroit commuter service was re-equipped with ex-UP aluminum coaches. Some were elderly section slepers rebuilt as air-conditioned wide-window long distance coaches. Others were commuter coaches, not all air-conditioned. A number of these, including one of the Oden cars I think, had steel-plated wood-frame trucks. These cars were in high-speed passenger service as late as the 1970's. Wonder what an Amtrak car-knocker would make of that?

The two cars of Oden are about to be joined by a third 6-axle car, a 1937 CN 64-seat coach hacked into a memorial to the Michigan state fish-hatchery service. This car is to be installed at an ecology-education center at a former fish hatchery on the other side of US-31. It contains an approximation of a portion of the interior of the state fish-transport car of the 1930's, which was made from an 1890's open-platform wood sleeper. A camp kitchen, replica Pullman sections and fish-can racks were installed in half this lightweight coach, and ecology exhibits in the other half. All very weird, and paid for with money from a judgment against Consumers Energy Corp., for all the fish ground up over the years by the Ludington pumped-storage hydro plant.

Now, we'll see if Dave can tell us if the Soo Line 10-section wooden sleeping-car body is still on timbers behind the former PRR depot at Alanson.

Aarne Frobom
The Steam Railroading Institute
P. O. Box 665
Owosso, MI 48867-0665

Aarne wrote;
"These are from a large number of GTW
heavyweight coaches that became surplus in
the 1970's as the GTW intercity trains were
cancelled under Amtrak and the
Pontiac-Detroit commuter service was
re-equipped with ex-UP aluminum coaches.
Some were elderly section sleepers rebuilt as
air-conditioned wide-window long distance
coaches. Others were commuter coaches, not
all air-conditioned. A number of these,
including one of the Oden cars I think, had
steel-plated wood-frame trucks. These cars
were in high-speed passenger service as late
as the 1970's. Wonder what an Amtrak
car-knocker would make of that?"

The GTW heavyweights replaced an earlier wooden private car which was moved from the site on its own wheels to the rail museum on the Boyne City Railway via Penn Central. In 1976, the car was subsequently purchased at auction and moved again on its own wheels to Tawas City, MI via Mackinaw City. Of interest is that the car still had paper wheels. I assume that is a pretty late date for those wheels to be in service.

Alex Huff


dsrc512@sd.value.net

> The GTW heavyweights replaced an earlier
> wooden private car which was moved from the
> site on its own wheels to the rail museum on
> the Boyne City Railway via Penn Central. In
> 1976, the car was subsequently purchased at
> auction and moved again on its own wheels to
> Tawas City, MI via Mackinaw City.

Is the car at Tawas City in private hands or part of a museum/display? We've been trying to figure out what happened to it for a few years. We own BCG&A #802 that was on display at the Boyne City museum and have been trying to track down the current locations of all of the rolling stock that was at the museum. This car is the only one that we couldn't seem to find anything on until now.

BCG&A #802
davelecount@juno.com

> Is the car at Tawas City in private hands or
> part of a museum/display? We've been trying
> to figure out what happened to it for a few
> years. We own BCG&A #802 that was on
> display at the Boyne City museum and have
> been trying to track down the current
> locations of all of the rolling stock that
> was at the museum. This car is the only one
> that we couldn't seem to find anything on
> until now.

I do not know this is a fact, but this sounds like the Munising Railway double ended wood observation car. It was restored by CAP Pinkerton of the D&M and donated to the Ford Museum in the late 70's. I vaguely recall that it may have been up for auction by the Ford Museum a couple of years ago. I saw the special train go through Mt Morris, MI with the 0-6-0, caboose, and a baggage combine; and I remember a car with Allen wheels.

Steve


SZuidervee@aol.com

> I do not know this is a fact, but this
> sounds like the Munising Railway double
> ended wood observation car. I
> vaguely recall that it may have been up for
> auction by the Ford Museum a couple of years
> ago.

So far as I know the Munising Railway car is still enshrined in the Henry Ford Museum, paper wheels and all, next to the Ingersoll-Rand Diesel and the ex-MSTRP wood reefer. This may be the only complete car set of these wheels in existence. I always had the notion it was a business car, but don't know its interior layout.

Aarne Frobom
The Steam Railroading Institute
P. O. Box 665
Owosso, MI 48867

I seem to recall the Otto Mears business car at Knotts Berry Farm had paper wheels when I last saw her in 2000.

Rob

Ahead of the Torch
trains@robertjohndavis.com

> So far as I know the Munising Railway car is
> still enshrined in the Henry Ford Museum,
> paper wheels and all, next to the
> Ingersoll-Rand Diesel and the ex-MSTRP wood
> reefer. This may be the only complete car
> set of these wheels in existence. I always
> had the notion it was a business car, but
> don't know its interior layout.

Thanks for the information. The Munising car sounds very interesting - it must not have been on display when I last visited the Ford Museum 25 years ago. As for paper wheels, it seems to me that if the car is sitting in one spot on "paper" wheels(really compressed cardboard as I understand it) especially if the material is over 100 years old, I'd expect it to compress, making the axles out-of-round relative to the tires.

Anyway, I'll be passing through Michigan in a couple of weeks and I'll try to stop at Allanson and see if the wood sleeper body is still there.

Man, lots of early memories here in this post!

These coaches in Oden must be what I remember seeing when we took our Northern trip when I was about five (circa 1980). They have hung in my memory for years, and I always wondered what happened to them. Man, that answers a 20 year question for me. Thanks! That trip also got me my one and only ride on the Marquette & Huron Mountain, which I still have the patch for. Man, was there a graveyard of LS&I steam there. I still have some instant shots I took with my polaroid. Hmmm. By the way, what ever happened to 2-8-0 #23?

The last time I saw the wood-bodied sleeper was in 1992, at Alanson. I haven't been there since, and I have no idea if it is still there or not.

In case you are interested, there are a couple of automobile boxes of the GTW at Onaway, Michigan. They are used as storage there by the local elevator, and are really low numbers, like 72009 or something like that, with intact end doors.

What I'm kicking myself over is the last piece of Detroit, Caro, & Sandusky equipment which disappeared last year. Formerly a cupola-less Caboose of the D&M, DC&S #1 was finally ripped down by a lady who had been using as a storahe shed for years outside of Caro. It was in rough shape, but it was still sad to see it go.

TJG

> Thanks for the information. The Munising car
> sounds very interesting - it must not have
> been on display when I last visited the Ford
> Museum 25 years ago. As for paper wheels, it
> seems to me that if the car is sitting in
> one spot on "paper" wheels(really
> compressed cardboard as I understand it)
> especially if the material is over 100 years
> old, I'd expect it to compress, making the
> axles out-of-round relative to the tires.

> Anyway, I'll be passing through Michigan in
> a couple of weeks and I'll try to stop at
> Allanson and see if the wood sleeper body is
> still there.


Port Huron Museum

tjgaffney@phmuseum.org

> Man, lots of early memories here in this
> post!

> These coaches in Oden must be what I
> remember seeing when we took our Northern
> trip when I was about five (circa 1980).
> They have hung in my memory for years, and I
> always wondered what happened to them. Man,
> that answers a 20 year question for me.
> Thanks! That trip also got me my one and
> only ride on the Marquette & Huron
> Mountain, which I still have the patch for.
> Man, was there a graveyard of LS&I steam
> there. I still have some instant shots I
> took with my polaroid. Hmmm. By the way,
> what ever happened to 2-8-0 #23?

TJ;

It's at the Empire State Railway Museum, Kingston, NY.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Locomotives
james1@pernet.net

Thanks, James! I know that a couple went to Grand Canyon, but what happened to the rest of the stuff up there at M&HR?

TJ

> TJ;

> It's at the Empire State Railway Museum,
> Kingston, NY.

> -James Hefner
> Hebrews 10:20a


Port Huron Museum

tjgaffney@phmuseum.org

Didn't someone from Petosky or Traverse City buy the Munsing Car, coach and the combine that Greenfield Village put up for auction last year? I would be surprised if it is still in Dearborn and not moved out yet.

James Kissinger

> I do not know this is a fact, but this
> sounds like the Munising Railway double
> ended wood observation car. It was restored
> by CAP Pinkerton of the D&M and donated
> to the Ford Museum in the late 70's. I
> vaguely recall that it may have been up for
> auction by the Ford Museum a couple of years
> ago. I saw the special train go through Mt
> Morris, MI with the 0-6-0, caboose, and a
> baggage combine; and I remember a car with
> Allen wheels.

> Steve


JamesKissinger@hotmail.com