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Fate of up csa tenders?
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=40449		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  BigBoy 4023 [ Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Fate of up csa tenders?
Evening, I have heard a rumor lately from the UP steam shops of the CSA tenders having their trucks salvaged and the bodies being scrapped. Could anyone provide any insight as to what the UP would be needing those style tender trucks for and why the CSA tenders are unfit for restoration?

Seems with Bigboy and someday 3985 being restored the UP will be short one water tender for a triple header.

Being the last reminiscent part of the CSA challengers their scrapping would be a loss would it not?

Robert
Author:  car57 [ Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fate of up csa tenders?
I for one am hazarding a guess at what a UP CSA tender looks like, are you talking Gas Turbine tender frames ? Please give more details

Mike Pannell
Author:  BigBoy 4023 [ Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fate of up csa tenders?
Mike, The two tenders in question are from the CSA challengers and later ran with gas turbines. For years these two tenders sat in Ogden Ut. They were hauled down to Cheyenne Wyoming and have been sitting at the UP steam shops for a while now. Unless they have been scrapped? They should still be in Cheyenne otherwise.

Robert
Author:  hullmat991 [ Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fate of up csa tenders?
What does the CSA designation stand for? Was it used to indicate a special or limited run of production?
Author:  JayZee [ Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fate of up csa tenders?
The csa class challengers were the first 2 orders for UP. They were light challengers while the other orders (3985 is a later class) were heavy challengers. If you see video of UP challengers with a round centered headlight and loco plate not on the smokebox door it's a CSA class if I recall right.
Author:  car57 [ Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fate of up csa tenders?
I will look tomorrow

Mike Pannell
Author:  Dougvv [ Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fate of up csa tenders?
Hi,

Quote:
The csa class challengers were the first 2 orders for UP.


Thanks for the clarification.

Down heah in the great state of Jawja, we'uns still hold our Confederate money boys 'cause the south's gonna rise ag'in! Heck we even had an air force but hadda change the name to keep it hidd'n.

Yeehaw!

Cunnel Doug

<VBG>
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fate of up csa tenders?
At least two of these ex-GTE tenders ended up, inexplicably, at some trackside siding in Mechanicsburg/Shiremanstown, Pa. (across the river from Harrisburg), visible from that stretch of expressway that later got tagged I-581, until they disappeared at some later date around the late 1980s/early 90s. Is there any chance UP repatriated these two?
Author:  hullmat991 [ Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fate of up csa tenders?
Dougvv wrote:
Hi,

Quote:
The csa class challengers were the first 2 orders for UP.


Thanks for the clarification.

Down heah in the great state of Jawja, we'uns still hold our Confederate money boys 'cause the south's gonna rise ag'in! Heck we even had an air force but hadda change the name to keep it hidd'n.

Yeehaw!

Cunnel Doug

<VBG>

I dont know why but I just read that in the Dukes Of Hazard narrator voice; and now I'm imagining the brothers getting a hold of a 3000 class, painting it up as the General Lee, and taking it out for some fun.
Author:  Dougvv [ Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fate of up csa tenders?
"Theme From The Dukes Of Hazzard (Good Ol' Boys)"

Just'a good ol' boys
Never meanin' no harm.
Beats all you never saw
Been in trouble with the law
Since the day they was born

Staightnin' the curves
Flatnin the hills
Someday the mountain might get 'em
But the law never will

Makin' their way
The only way they know how
That's just a little bit more
Than the law will allow.

Makin' their way
The only way they know how
That's just a little bit more
Than the law will allow.

I'm a good ol' boy
You know my momma loves me
But she don't understand
They keep a showin my hands and not my face on TV

OH YEA


http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/waylonjennings/themefromthedukesofhazzardgoodolboys.html

Uncle Pete sure used the Challangers for "
Staightnin' the curves
Flatnin the hills
Someday the mountain might get 'em"

Even the turbines and DD40AX's were used.

Doug vV
Author:  Lincoln Penn [ Sun Mar 05, 2017 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fate of up csa tenders?
CSA stood for Challenger Simple Articulated.

That was the designation before they changed to 4-6-6-4 X, with X being the number of the group purchase. Example: On UP, there were 4-6-6-4 1, 4-6-6-4 2, 4-6-6-4 3, 4-6-6-4 4 and 4-6-6-4 5. Because they were bought on 5 separate orders.
and there were some differences between individual orders. For instance, 4-6-6-4 4 had Type E superheaters while 4-6-6-4 5 had type A.

Same with the Big Boys: 4-8-8-4 1 and 4-8-8-4 2. Same here; 2 separate orders.
4014 is a 4-8-8-4 1, while 4023 is a 4-8-8-4 2. Here, the 1 had type E and the 2 was heavier and had type A.

They stayed with letters on some types: Example, the Northerns were FEF-1, FEF-2,
and FEF-3. FEF 1 had smaller drivers than 2 or 3. 3 had type A superheaters while 1 and 2 had type E.
Author:  filmteknik [ Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fate of up csa tenders?
Here's something to ponder. If they ever did run a triple header, would they even want the water bottles? Not just to look more historic but it only takes so much horsepower to pull any given train and in a very, very crude way, only so much steam, thus only so much water. I know it doesn't totally work that way but isn't water consumption per engine down if you are sharing the load?
Author:  Dave Lewandoski [ Sun Mar 05, 2017 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fate of up csa tenders?
wait till UP gets more than one steamer going before even pondering a triple header.....and I wouldn't hold your breath on that since Dickens has stated that 3985 will never run again as long as he's in charge.
Author:  Randy Hees [ Sun Mar 05, 2017 6:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fate of up csa tenders?
If I remember correctly, these tenders have two three axle trucks, while the tenders used with the three locomotives which are part of the steam program have centipede style cast frames.

Additionally, I believe that the tenders require a larger radius curve than the locomotives... Did UP ever consider using one of the CSA tenders with the current locomotives?

Randy
Author:  Lincoln Penn [ Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fate of up csa tenders?
Randy Hees wrote:
If I remember correctly, these tenders have two three axle trucks, while the tenders used with the three locomotives which are part of the steam program have centipede style cast frames.

Additionally, I believe that the tenders require a larger radius curve than the locomotives... Did UP ever consider using one of the CSA tenders with the current locomotives?

Randy


The CSA tenders in question have 3-axle Buckeye trucks, with roller bearings.

The FEF tanks that are the current water cars also have 3-axle trucks, but these are GSC trucks, not Buckeye. These trucks were totally rebuilt in the mid-1990's with all new springs, pins bushings, spring rigging, pedestal liners, axles, wheels and Timken GG roller bearings in new adapters.

None of the 4 above tenders have centipede arrangements, thus they can go around any curve a 6-axle diesel can take, and probably even sharper curves, since the trucks each have shorter wheelbases than do diesel trucks and the cars themselves are only about 47 feet long.

The CSA tanks are even shorter than the FEF tanks; truck wheelbases are about the same.
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