To all: please pass the word to everyone you know who comes in contact with the whistle and horn folks: NCTM suffered the loss to theft of two Nathan M5 horns, one off SR E8 6900 and the other off NS Baldwin diesel 1616, both at the Spencer Roundhouse, probably Thursday or Friday nights. The E8 horn is (or was) SR green with a small triangular chip on one of the trumpets. The other one was glossy black.

No other equipment was vandalized.

As you can imagine, we're re-evaluating and changing our security measures. A true low-life who would do such a thing to a museum.

If you have information, please pass it along to the museum's front office at (704) 636-2889 or you may email me. I'll also roundup a number for the police department handling the investigation and post it later today.

Jim

http://nctrans.org
Wrinnbo@aol.com

I'm sure the cops told you truckers want them for their rigs. I hope they can be identified; if you hear an 18-wheeler with an M5 I'd love to see the truck (and load) impounded on a Receiving Stolen Goods charge.

Electric City Trolley Museum Association

Jim
Are there any specific markings identifying the horns as property of NCTM? A stamp set and a few minutes can make such items much less desirable to thieves.
Tom

ironbartom@aol.com

It's also very easy to dissassemble small parts and stamp the inside in addition to the outside that way if the theifs grind off the visable markings some should remain.

Paul

> Jim
> Are there any specific markings identifying
> the horns as property of NCTM? A stamp set
> and a few minutes can make such items much
> less desirable to thieves.
> Tom


Stuhr Museum
pfdx@aol.com

Not only truckers, there ARE so-called railfans who would take them. If you recall there was a set of horns liberated from an Everett RR dismal during a whistle collectors exhibition in nearby Altoona. I see a LOT of "railroadiana" for sale at the toy train shows as well, much of it with absolutely no documentation.

IMO you are letting your predjudices run away with you. MOST truck drivers, like most accountants, secretaries, or RR museum volunteers are NOT thieves. A truck driver who ends up with stolen train horns, is usually just like your average foamer who gets a number plate off ebay,,,He probably bought them thinking they were just salvage items.

Now, as to WHY a truck driver would want such an odd item. Have you noticed lately the number of totally oblivious automobile drivers out there? What with the car's boom boom stereo, cell phone, newspaper, and whatnot, Those OEM Peterbuilt horns just can't get through to the auto driver's pea brain.

Yup, he's a rotten one! Lets impound that load, Aunt Martha doesn't desrve that refrigerator he was delivering anyway.

I doubt that a locomotive horn could be mounted on a semi. They have a voracious appetite for air, ie, a KS-1 uses 64 cfm. Semi trucks have relatively small compressors and air tanks. If a trucker put a locomotive air horn on his truck and laid on it at 60 mph, I'd bet his spring brakes would lock up in a matter of seconds. BTW, I've never seen a trucker ever do it, and I drive I-5 a lot.

nwstaybolt@reachone.com

> I doubt that a locomotive horn could be
> mounted on a semi. They have a voracious
> appetite for air, ie, a KS-1 uses 64 cfm.
> Semi trucks have relatively small
> compressors and air tanks. If a trucker put
> a locomotive air horn on his truck and laid
> on it at 60 mph, I'd bet his spring brakes
> would lock up in a matter of seconds. BTW,
> I've never seen a trucker ever do it, and I
> drive I-5 a lot.

It happens. I've seen a K5LA mounted to the trailer of a semi. Couldn't really tell if it worked or not, but it was there.


jtjjtb@aol.com

A second receiver (air tank) and a diverter valve (or a dedicated electric pump)...about 1-1/2 hours worth of drilling bolting and plumbing.

You could put the receiver and electric pump in the trunk of your Toyota and mount the horns on the roof ifyou REALLY wanted to...it would just look rather silly.

HA!
Imagine my consternation when I was testing a horn next to Rt18 and a trucker hooted back ... musta been a 5 chime ... Being dense I couldn't figure out where the other train was until it dawned on me.

Yes they can and do hook them up

The only remedy is to do what the class 1's do and that is to weld the bolts down ... the horn must be pretty much destroyed to remove it.


lamontdc@adelphia.net

Of course they can be mounted and used on a truck. There are hundreds of them out there right now. Most acquired legitimately; some not.

Just like the ads looking for or selling whistles, horns and bells in the big magazines. Most of this stuff starts out stolen, then changes hands a number of times.

As to prevent the theft in the first place, and having been a victim of this type of crime several times, there are several steps that can (must) be taken:

1. NEVER assume that your stuff is safe just because it's in a museum or it's one-of-a-kind or everyone like sit. If anything, this makes it MORE susceptible to theft.

2. When nobody is going to be around, or you know the place is going to be open to visitors and can't be watched 24/7, remove such items and lock them away in a storeroom.

3. Or, install them with SAE grade 8 bolts, nuts and washers, then weld the nuts to the bolts. It will make it more difficult for a thief to get it off, and more time-consuming.

4. Keep the real thing locked away, and put replicas on the locomotive, except for very special events. If they steal a plastic imitation, so what? The jokes on them.

"Most of this stuff starts out stolen, then changes hands a number of times."

I think MOST of it starts out from the various scrappers. maybe 10% of the stuff on the market was misappropriated. AND I'll bet that on much of the stuff that DID start out stolen, the theft was performed by RR employees.

Anyway, here's some ideas to help save everyone misery

Yes Marking pieces and bolt welding as suggested is real good. Photographing everything and noting the flaws and storing the info in a safe deposit box is good too.

But also, lets fight thefts from another direction

We (the preservation community) could flood the market with resin, or even aluminum reproductions (presentation editions!) of our builders plates at $15-25 a pop, there will be less market demand for the real ones.... Better for the rail preservation community than the "bums" make all that money.

(This might be a good service for RyPN) Promote a worldwide online "hotsheet" with pictures, markings, reward, contact #s, all that useful info in ONE place.

And a tip for collectors (though it should be obvious), even if it is a cash sale or horse trade, ALWAYS insist on a receipt with the seller's name and address...(just for estate or tax purposes ;) )

I like the "hot sheet" idea. It makes a lot of sense. And I'll keep my eyes open for a green air horn with a triangular dent in ir. Serial nos. if such are available would be most helpfull.

Sincerely,
David Ackerman

david_ackerman@yahoo.com

Another place I have seen them is on Fairmonts, there is a place on the South East Region of NARCOA page on how to mount airhorns on your track speeder. WHY anyone would want to do this, as the NARCOA rules specifically state that motorcars yield to automotive traffic at grade crossings, and that "thou shall not blow for a grade crossing", but yet, I have photos of an M19 with a five chime on top(looks silly as all get out), and here's the instructions on how to.
They way I figure it, most of those things are kinda like Harley Davidsons, they are so loud any horn is superfluous.
Also seems like some (not all) of the folks that participate in these excursions are "wanna-be" railroaders, a variant of the foamer we are all too familiar with.

http://www.heliflight.com/seromotorcarinfo.htm