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Moving a Depot- Experience/advice?
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=40747		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  whodom [ Sun May 28, 2017 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Moving a Depot- Experience/advice?
I recently moved back to the tiny town of Salters, SC where I grew up. Our town still has an old ACL depot next to the CSX mainline:

Image

The folks that now own the depot have to move it off of CSX property. Fortunately, they own the vacant lot immediately adjacent to the depot (to the right in the photo above), so it only has to be moved 100 feet or so to the west. The depot already sits a significant distance from the mainline as there used to be a siding track between the mainline and the depot.

Apparently the move was set to happen in the last couple of weeks when at the last minute CSX announced that the mover would have to have railroad-specific insurance before they would allow the move to occur. This adds ~$1500 to the cost of the move. The owners also have to foot the bill for a flagman to be on site during the move.

I was just wondering if others have any experience with a similar move and could offer any tips for minimizing costs and for dealing with railways in general or CSX in particular.

Thanks in advance!
Author:  trainsfireengine [ Mon May 29, 2017 10:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Moving a Depot- Experience/advice?
I am guessing that those two brick chimneys will be demolished before a move is attempted. If those chimneys collapse during the move they will cause substantial damage to the rest of the building. The building appears to be solid without any swayback sagging and it is above ground so it may not have to be jacked up much more to get temporary support under it.
Author:  Pegasuspinto [ Mon May 29, 2017 10:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Moving a Depot- Experience/advice?
If all that it takes is another 1500 and a flagman, it would seem to me to just pony up and do it before they change their minds again, or the mover gets cold feet, or whatever.
Author:  dinwitty [ Mon May 29, 2017 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Moving a Depot- Experience/advice?
take pictures of the chimney and rebuild it (take the chimney out)

the only other good idea is to hard wrap it in plastic and stuff it with packaging wadding whatever.
Author:  trainsfireengine [ Mon May 29, 2017 11:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Moving a Depot- Experience/advice?
If you had written permission from CSX a short time back then you might still have a binding agreement. If the discussions were only verbal then there is a chance that the CSX staffers that you were dealing with have left the company. Get the insurance and submit it to them, get the local permits that might be needed, have everything in writing and signed and do it soon before the next storm hits at CSX. Now you may be huntering for someone else to deal with at CSX.
Author:  car57 [ Mon May 29, 2017 11:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Moving a Depot- Experience/advice?
If its literally 100 feet back or whatever you could roll it on house moving beams with chimneys in place quite easily,

Mike
Author:  Dave [ Mon May 29, 2017 11:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Moving a Depot- Experience/advice?
My grandfather used logs as rollers, hand jacks and mules for this. Short move like that, you could probably have it done in the dead of night before CSX knew you were at it. Once it's on the new property, plenty of time to get it perfectly situated. If there are overhead wires to be dodged, that's another story. Yes, the chimneys will need to be unstacked and the rebuilt once settled on the new foundation.
Author:  whodom [ Tue May 30, 2017 1:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Moving a Depot- Experience/advice?
Here's an aerial view showing approximately where the depot has to be moved. No power lines to move, no roads to cross. It's about as simple a move as you could hope for.

Image

Thanks for the suggestions. I need to talk to the owners again and see where they are with the move.
Author:  sbhunterca [ Tue May 30, 2017 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Moving a Depot- Experience/advice?
I would highly recommending quietly and quickly paying the $1500 plus flagman's wages.

You certainly don't want to do anything to upset the railroad while you're on their property, and these requirements are perfectly reasonable.

As for saving money, when moving buildings, you can sometimes save money by greatly increasing the time investment. Since the new owners have hired professional movers, the best thing to do is get out of the way and let them work. Time is money, so you want them in and out fast. Once the building is on wheels, the job will go very quickly.

It is possible you might save money by taking down the chimneys yourself in advance of the move, but CSX would still require a flagman, negating any savings.

We have moved a lot of rolling stock and a large two storey railway dwelling at RMEO. There are times to save money and times when it is far better to bite the bullet and hand the man your wallet. This would be a case where the latter is advisable.

Steve Hunter
Author:  Dennis Storzek [ Tue May 30, 2017 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Moving a Depot- Experience/advice?
whodom wrote:
Here's an aerial view showing approximately where the depot has to be moved. No power lines to move, no roads to cross. It's about as simple a move as you could hope for.



I hope it clears the tree.

I don't see any foundation to receive the building. It's normally way cheaper to prepare the new foundation first, rather than working under the building, even if it is only piers, though I suppose if it's questionable if the move will happen, I can see the reluctance to pay for a foundation that may never be used... but at least dig the holes before the move.
Author:  airforcerail [ Wed May 31, 2017 7:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Moving a Depot- Experience/advice?
I can tell you now, the insurance costs are universal. If a phone company needs to be on the ROW (and that means any part of it, not just the actual roadbed) they have to have a policy or pay CSX. When we were looking at lines to lease, we had to pay just to be on the property, even on very obviously disused and overgrown rail lines. In the grand scheme of things, it isn't much and will help save another piece of history. The building looks to be in much better shape then several I have seen moved over the years. I also agree foundation work ahead of the move, and an easy move sideways over flat ground shouldn't disturb the chimneys if they are in good condition.
Author:  filmteknik [ Wed May 31, 2017 8:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Moving a Depot- Experience/advice?
Do the chimneys sit on the building frame or their own footings in the ground?
Author:  Randy Gustafson [ Wed May 31, 2017 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Moving a Depot- Experience/advice?
I'm measuring 32 feet off the centerline, so that's 'close enough' to an active CSX line that they are legitimately concerned.

Just remember that they piled into that forklift crossing the track down on the Hudson River Line and made national news a couple months ago. Nobody is going to get rewarded by cutting a break now in CSX. Most contractors do have to provide railroad protective liability insurance if they are on the ROW, that's not that unusual.

I was thinking 'maybe' you could offer fencing to CSX prior to the move to enforce staying clear of the ROW, but that's probably even more expensive than the insurance. You will want to find out HOW LONG the contractor thinks they will be within "X" feet of CSX, because that's the flagging issue. That can get really expensive.

I've seen 3-story wood-frame houses moved that distance in our town on sideways I-beams and slow hydraulics - a good house mover can certainly pull this off. And they left the chimneys. But the setup and prep time, along with setting up the new foundation, can be a while.
Author:  sbhunterca [ Wed May 31, 2017 11:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Moving a Depot- Experience/advice?
[quote=I've seen 3-story wood-frame houses moved that distance in our town on sideways I-beams and slow hydraulics - a good house mover can certainly pull this off. And they left the chimneys. But the setup and prep time, along with setting up the new foundation, can be a while.[/quote]

The two biggest factors in how fast the station can be rolled or slid this short distance is the condition of its sills, and whether the chimneys are on footings in the ground.

With good sills and chimneys supported by the building itself, beams could be slid in, jacked up, and the building slid or rolled off railway property quite fast. With poor sills and chimneys supported by footings in the ground, it could be a nightmarish task that takes a lot of time.

When we raised our old family home in Prince Edward Island to replace its foundation, the contractor cored through both chimney foundations and jacked them along with the house. Not one brick was disturbed, and there were hardly any new cracks in the plaster work. Considerable sill replacement was done. While it was sitting on cribbing, a hurricane rolled through... fortunately, the house stayed put despite some ominous trembling.

Steve Hunter
Author:  G. W. Laepple [ Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Moving a Depot- Experience/advice?
On the front page of the local paper this morning is a photo and story of a large 207-year-old two story brick farmhouse that was moved 800 feet down one hill , across a brook and up a second hill to a new foundation. The entire move took less than two hours. Piece of cake for the professionals!
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