For the information of both the museums and the wannabe collectors:

Air horns are complex items of precision machining, not something to be trifled with lightly. There are perhaps one to two hundred serious collectors in North America, with untold other rail buffs who just want an example of the horn they hear all the time, plus many others who might just want a way to be obnoxious with their truck or get their jollies in strange ways.

Horns are NOT cheap. A new five-chime from the manufacturer will set you back on the order of five thousand dollars. Thus, even the somewhat obscene collectible prices on eBay are a bargain for someone who legitimately needs one. Westinghouse still stocks replacement parts for some of its now-antique air horns, last I heard, but a diaphragm alone costs four figures. The current going price of the Nathan M5, the target of the NCTM theft, is sky-high, now often in four figures--and that's for a maintenance-heavy, fickle work of engineering to boot!

Horns can--and do--fail or get broken, which can mean a thoroughly obnoxious repair or replacement job. I DO NOT advise any attempt to weld an air horn or its manifold (usually made from cast aluminum) directly to a locomotive. This would be as foolhardy as welding an engine block to the car frame, or the valve head to the block. If security is a serious problem, there are ways to handle the problem--I won't reveal them here, but professional shop personnel will advise you accordingly (special nuts/bolts, welding expendable nuts to expendable bolts, etc.)

The best advice I could give a museum is to engrave identification (example: "NCTM NS 1618") all over the horn--including on each trumpet (called "bell") of the horn, each end cap/power chamber (the part housing the diaphragm), and on the manifold itself. Why so many places? The bells and power chambers alone can be (and have been) stolen, leaving the manifold in place.

All of this, of course, applies to OPERATING preserved diesels/electrics. If you have a preserved diesel stuffed and mounted in the open, it's perhaps best to have some craftsman fashion wooden replicas, or find a horn collector willing to assemble a near-replica from defective parts.

lner4472@bcpl.net

Just thought I'd add: You have to figure the tools that the thief has available when you are designing your protection. A couple of wrenches, if electricity is available maybe an angle grinder or drill but probably not a torch (?), hammer and cold chisel, nut cracker etc. Cages can be made to cover the bolts on the bell/manifold connection and carriage bolts can be used where the head cannot be tampered with, the bolt and nut welded to the locomotive etc. I would guess that most places are like ours in that they don't have any kind of security system (yet) but this should probably should be considered and prioritized. At least we have not yet seen anybody sued by someone falling off a loco roof or the thieves destroying the horn they could not remove. Some of us make it awful easy for this to happen, especially considering the value (monetary and historical) of our equipment.


lamontdc@adelphia.net

OK, no flames intended here, but I have to say:

Having bought horns new from both Leslie and Nathan over the last 20 years, $5,000 will buy you several of any kind of horn you can think of.

3 years ago, a new Leslie 5-chime SuperTyfon cost $1,800, including shipping, from Leslie. A rebuilt one (new gaskets, new or repaired diaphragms, etc.) cost about 1/3 of that.

A new K5HR24 was $875, while a rebuilt one was $269. A new K3LAR was $508, while a new K3HAR2 was $606. A new RSL-3L-RF was $1,006, while a rebuilt one was only $175.

Horns are not that complex, nor do they require a
lot of intricate machine work. They are basic potmetal or aluminum castings, with a few parts and gaskets added.

I never said to weld to the horns; it would be pretty hard to do, anyway due to the materials involved. I said to weld the mounting bolts to the nuts, or to the flange on the end of the air pipe. Or rivet them on.

BUT: If someone wants the horn badly enough, he will get it, no matter what you do, unless you keep it ocked up and a replica on the locomotive.

Finally, horns are a commodity; they were changed out on an annual basis on some roads, bi-annually on others, and more often on others, especially if damaged. The horn on a particular locomotive when a museum gets it is no more a part of some trumped up "historic fabric" than the oil in crankcase or the fuel in the tank is. If you have a 35-year old locomotive in your collection, chances are the horn has been changed out 15 or 20 times or more over the unit's service life.

> Finally, horns are a commodity; they were
> changed out on an annual basis on some
> roads, bi-annually on others, and more often
> on others, especially if damaged. The horn
> on a particular locomotive when a museum
> gets it is no more a part of some trumped up
> "historic fabric" than the oil in
> crankcase or the fuel in the tank is. If you
> have a 35-year old locomotive in your
> collection, chances are the horn has been
> changed out 15 or 20 times or more over the
> unit's service life.

Darn it Earl ... another piece of the romance of railroading bites the dust! But you are correct horns are a consumable. I alway laughed at the traction guys that proudly display a whistle from a specific Ohio interurban .. put any six of them from separate roads on a table and chances are five of them are Ohio Brass three chime and they will all sound the same if tuned properly.

I wonder if the horn mfg.ers know they are missing out on a new market! It would take the pressure off the museums ... there is nothing quite like coming out on a Sunday morning to get a train ready to run only to discover the only horn on your only locomotive was ripped off Saturday nite ... scramble, scramble.



lamontdc@adelphia.net

There is a company making repro of the Southern RR Longbell whistle, and a couple others. Unfortunately (proabably mostly due to US labor costs), these are priced at, or above the cost of an original whistle.

To "relieve the pressure on the museums" the repros would probably need to be at significantly lower to offset the desire for most collectors to have a "real" one. (And you'd STILL probably have those who would prefer shopping at "Midnight Railroad Supply")

And further (please let me annoy you all with a little parable), there was a company making an inexpensive "dummy" display boat whistle (about 2-1/2" diameter by 9" tall) for people to display on their mantles or whatever...BUT surprise! surprise! EVERYTHING will interchange with the same size Lonergan (made in Phila Pa in the early part of the last century and generally bringing about 4-5x the cost of the repro). As an experiment, it took me about 45 minutes to make one into a working whistle (to drill 4 passages, cut and lap the valve seat and replace the valve spring). Well, to make a long story short, I had a spot of negative cash flow, so I sold the thing, and I told the people exactly what it was...
Well it soon got back to me that the guy who bought it was not nearly so scrupulous, he's changed the handle (which I had stamped with my company's initials and year) and is/was offering it as an New-Old Stock Lonergan. Last I heard he was still a bit TOO greedy and it was priced far enough above market for a real one that he hadn't sold it, but....

What's my point? If you're going to make a repro, or even a reissue, please remember to mark every major part...just because you are honest doesn't mean the next guy will be.