I'd like to test this theory. With continued issues of insurance coverage, mainline access, and passenger cars, why not use the railway at Steamtown to host guest locomotives with nowhere to run (PM 1225, Cotton Belt 819, etc.)? This was successful at the opening with MILW 261 and the Blue Mountain 4-6-2. So, what are the issues, and is there an easy answer? My idea assumes that engines run light or are towed cold to Scranton. I would think that cooperation with ferry moves would be a win-win for the big four railroads. As in, "hey, we can no longer support a full time steam program, or occasional fan trips, but we'll help support ops at Steamtown."

Your thoughts?

Wesley

Hello

As far as I can see the major obstacles involved are getting the engine TO Scranton. Steamtown has hosted (as mentioned above) engines from various organizations. Here's a list of the visiting steam engines:

MILW 261
RBMN 425
RBMN 2102 (never ran at Scranton)
NYSW 142
LBR 8 (2 Truck shay)
C&A John Bull (Replica from RR Museum of PA)
PRR 1361 (Contract restoration)

As I mentioned the major obstacle is getting the engines there. Price wise, depending on distance, you could be looking at costs upwards of 50K, one way, not to mention wear on equipment.

Also, beacuse Steamtown is a federal installation, folks there are very cautious about hosting privatly owned engines. While NPS train operations personell would act as engineer-pilots on any moves, it would be illegal for NPS staff to repair or maintain these engines while on Gov't time, unless hey were doing the work as a billable service under contract.

Bottom line is that excursions with private engines can be done successfully, as the 261 and 425 proved over and over, but it takes alot of work. The expense, distance, combined with the nuances invloved with a government site make future possibilities unlikely, but not out of the question.

Dave Crosby

bing@epix.net

> The question is very simple. Who would pay? (ferry moves, maintenance, etc.)

I just can't see how it would happen financially. The park service cannot spend money to do these things and if an engine is shipped 1000 miles away from home, where's the incentive for the people at the place origin to ante up?

The grand opening was financed by a special organization set up to bring in the 261, etc.

Superheater@beer.com

{NOTE: mandatory sarcasm warning!!}
Why should a Class One mainline railroad be willing to allow a ferry move? It's still a steam locomotive (which, as all modern-day railroad officials know, is from Mars [or some other planet]), operating over a no-doubt reduced-capacity, increased-traffic mainline. What's in it for them? Fewer requests to operate steam trips? How many railfans ship trainloads of containers on those railroads? Far simpler to "just say no", like they usually do. {end sarcasm section.}

And, more importantly, most of the locomotives you mention have hard-working, dedicated volunteer groups who do the restoration and maintenance of their locomotives. If the 1225 is 900 miles from Owosso, how are the people who know her best going to be able to care for her?

The idea of of a "reservation" that the big fellas can strut their stuff on is a great one, and Scranton (and the D-L) is a great place for that idea. It was idly talked about 25-30 years ago, too, when we thought things were getting bad (lack of steam-friendly eastern roads). But, unlike Great Britain, the distances involved and sizes of our "big" locomotives is too great. Over there, they truck Pacifics around on the roads between preserved rail lines, and they rebuild (as in "from scratch") 4-track mainlines-- the Great Central's 10++ mile mainline.

HP
M.S.T.R.P. member #261 (really!!)

hpincus@mindspring.com