If this has already been debunked as an urban myth, my apologies. A while back I saw something about a possible ex-Erie 4-6-2 having been shipped to South Korea, and pondering its current existence. This link purports a siting, plus a road number as well as a location, then goes on to say it's not there now. Have there been any more recent confirmations of its existence? This would be a nice one to repatriate.

http://http://www.pernet.net/~james1/us_steam/korea.htm
jcpdeke@aol.com

Some corrections to the link and message title.

http://www.pernet.net/~james1/us_steam/korea.htm
jcpdeke@aol.com

Yes, this Erie engine was donated to South Korea. I have seen color photos in one of the Morning Sun Books. The story was that it was scrapped in the early 1960's but I for one would love to be disproved.

Erie Lackawanna Dining Car Preservation Society
tstuy@eldcps.org

The KNR had dieselised in 1968, but had to bring steam back in 1969-1970 account increased traffic.

In 1970, there were only two Pacifics, both class PaSi-5 and I believe they were #'s 20 and 23, built at YongDongPo during the Japanese occupation. I saw them used only in work train service, not road passenger which had EMD SDP-28 and SDP-38 units among other diesels. The only steam in road service were MiKa-3 and MiKa-5 2-8-2's.

Hal Carstens has been looking for that Erie Pacific for years.

BTW, I Ri where KNR's coal-burning MiKa-5's were then based is pronounced Erie, but no Erie Pacific was there.


Electric City Trolley Museum Association

John,

It was probably either an urban legend, or an outdated report. Some background:

I recieved the e-mail from Kathleen J. LaMonte (that was the email address, but I think the person was using someone else's address), which I quoted on the webpage. The quote is directly from the message; the only Pacific locomotive in Korea with a Vanderbilt tender would have been the Erie locomotive.

As someone mentioned earlier, there is no doubt that Erie K-1 class 2524 was sent to South Korea during the war. No-one seems to know for certain what happened to it following the war; the quote listed here that it was scrapped in the 1960s is news to me.

Dave Albertson of the Garden State Central Model Railroad Club visted Freedom Bridge, where the Pacific was said to have been plinthed, in 10/1998. What he found was not the Erie Pacific, but a Mikasa class 2-8-2 locomotive.

So was the report I recieved wrong, or out-of-date? The Mikasa there now looks nothing like a "pacific with a vanderbuilt tender". Dave Albertson entertained the theory that the Erie Pacific was moved to an unknown location under cover, and replaced with the Mikasa. But no-one knows for sure, and no, no further news as been recieved; although we are finally getting reports from North Korea.

If we accept the report that the Erie Pacific was indeed seen in 1984-5, I would also be doubtful that it was scrapped at such a late date. But, like the Monocacy Station report, there has been no other reported sighting, and the Erie Pacific obviously isn't there now.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

> If this has already been debunked as an
> urban myth, my apologies. A while back I saw
> something about a possible ex-Erie 4-6-2
> having been shipped to South Korea, and
> pondering its current existence. This link
> purports a siting, plus a road number as
> well as a location, then goes on to say it's
> not there now. Have there been any more
> recent confirmations of its existence? This
> would be a nice one to repatriate.


Surviving World Steam Locomotives
james1@pernet.net

Dave Albertson is a good friend of mine, and it was because of the 1985 "sighting" and other rumors that Dave took a trip around South Korea looking for the Erie Pacific.

We ID'd where the Pacific "might be." Then, while I sat in Joisey, Dave went to hunt for it!

As Jim said, he didn't find it. He did find some really cool Korean steam, but not our Erie darlin'.

One of the cabbies Dave encountered seemed to know something about the Erie legend. He told Dave that South Korea values artifacts from the days of American help during the war, and that they rarely get rid of anything from the US. In the cabbie's mind, it would be strange if it was scrapped. Being American, the cabbie gave it a good shot of still being around.

I remain skeptical, but still without any evidence pointing either way.

Rob Davis


Ahead of the Torch
trains@robertjohndavis.com

> The KNR had dieselised in 1968, but had to
> bring steam back in 1969-1970 account
> increased traffic.

> In 1970, there were only two Pacifics, both
> class PaSi-5 and I believe they were #'s 20
> and 23, built at YongDongPo during the
> Japanese occupation. I saw them used only in
> work train service, not road passenger which
> had EMD SDP-28 and SDP-38 units among other
> diesels. The only steam in road service were
> MiKa-3 and MiKa-5 2-8-2's.

> Hal Carstens has been looking for that Erie
> Pacific for years.

> BTW, I Ri where KNR's coal-burning MiKa-5's
> were then based is pronounced Erie, but no
> Erie Pacific was there.
==================================================
Regarding the Erie Pacific, South Korea:
I was in South Korea 1970 & 1971 with the US Army's "DASPO" photographic team and traveled throughout the southern peninsula of Korea by rail and air.

As Phil said the EMD diesels were heading up all passenger trains.

I did not know that the steam was brought back account heavy traffic. This was good as it allowed myself and others from the USA to study steam in another country.

I know nothing of a Pacific steam engine or do I recall seeing one in South Korea.

The 2-8-2's were on hand at the Yong Sang RR yards switching the freight and I had the great
opportunity to study and photograph / 1/4" tape sound record them on my free time.

I rode with a local yard crew switching cars at Yong San RR yds. on steam 2-8-2 #89 and saw 2-8-2 #318 also working the freight cars.

The South Korean Steam engine crew spoke no english or did I speak S. Korean but we got along fine as they gave me the great chance of shooting them at work and getting a wonderful afternoon cab ride.

The 2-8-2's had SE Asia lettering on number plates that I do not know.

But I still recall the wondereful echo's of the steam whistles throughout Seoul, South Korea....all day long and well into the night.

This made my trip's to South Korea a joy to say the least.

Thanks Phil for the reminder of steam in South Korea. I dusted off my memory and found my old photos of the steam. (Don't have a scanner or I would "feed" some of them over the line to all.)

Keepers of the flame in early 1970's

Ron Widman

Crestline Roundhouse Preservation Society.

> Dave Albertson is a good friend of mine, and
> it was because of the 1985
> "sighting" and other rumors that
> Dave took a trip around South Korea looking
> for the Erie Pacific.

> We ID'd where the Pacific "might
> be." Then, while I sat in Joisey, Dave
> went to hunt for it!

> As Jim said, he didn't find it. He did find
> some really cool Korean steam, but not our
> Erie darlin'.

> One of the cabbies Dave encountered seemed
> to know something about the Erie legend. He
> told Dave that South Korea values artifacts
> from the days of American help during the
> war, and that they rarely get rid of
> anything from the US. In the cabbie's mind,
> it would be strange if it was scrapped.
> Being American, the cabbie gave it a good
> shot of still being around.

> I remain skeptical, but still without any
> evidence pointing either way.

> Rob Davis

I find it interesting that the story that Erie 2524 might still be in existance, just won't go away. I too hope that it is still around. What I would like to know however, is if anyone has a list of the steam locomotives that were sent to South Korea in ADDITION to the Pacific. I seem to recall that there were Pennsylvania and Chesapeake & Ohio and OTHER Erie locomotives and perhaps locomotives from other roads. Why can't we get a listing of what was sent? (Would we have to invoke the "Freedom of Information" act to get this?) And what the heck happened to all those locomotives? Were they all scrapped? If the Republic of Korea was the recipient of these engines to help them rebuild their railroad system, you would have thought that at least ONE of them would have been preserved if simply as a gesture of appreciation to the good old U.S.A.! What can we do to get this information? And what can we do to find out OFFICIALY from the ROK if any of these ex-USA engines exist anywhere in their country? Hey, aren't they our allies?

midlandblb@cs.com

No Message

One of them that was sent, then given back as I gift I mentioned before. That was the "General Pershing" ; ex US-Army 2-8-0 #765 then 101. It is now at the National RR Museum, Green Bay, WI.

We also sent over a lot of S-160s. However, they still had their left hand drive for British use, and were disliked by the Korean drivers. They did not last long.

The impression I had was that the Erie Pacific was more of an oddball donation than mainstream. Most of what was sent I believe were ex-USATC machines that were declared surplus not by us but by the UN, and sent from Europe to the ROK. The UN was also what sent several S-160s and similiar locomotives by Vulcan Foundry to replace war loses in Poland and Eastern Europe. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong about all of this.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a


Surviving World Steam Locomotives
james1@pernet.net

Steve,

I'm sorry. The formal meaning of "plinthe" is to set something on a pedastal. However, in the case of steam locomotives, I have only seen this in the former Soviet Union and a few other places worldwide. (The picture below, linked from the "Steam Engine Joseph Stalin" website, is one good example.)

A plinthed locomotive is any locomotive that is stuffed and mounted. A locomotive set on a short length of display track is considered "plinthed"; although the locomotive I saw in Paris, AR sitting on a bed of gravel and NO track in a park is "barely plinthed" in my book!

The phrase "plinthe" is often used in overseas publications such as the Continental Railway Journal and the trip reports on Rob Dickinson's "International Working Steam" website. In all of my CD-ROMs, I refer to any "stuff and mounted" steam engine on permenant display as "Display/plinthe" in the Notes field, including steam boats/ships that have been dragged up on dry land.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Locomotives

james1@pernet.net

James and others-

Has anyone considered contacting the South Korean embassy for help with these inquiries? With the decades of good relations between our two countries, I'd like to think that some assistance could occur. I'd be willing to try it.

http://www.pernet.net/~james1/us_steam/korea.htm
jcpdeke@aol.com

I have only seen this in the
> former Soviet Union and a few other places
> worldwide. (The picture below, linked from
> the "Steam Engine Joseph Stalin"
> website, is one good example.)

Stalin was no "Plinthe Charming", but it is amazing that the locomotive is unvandalized and no graffiti. Is it the Soviet discipline model, or the inaccessability of the engine?


glueck@maine.edu

Thanks Ron.
I arrived in ROK at night. Next morning I woke to the sound of a Reading chime whistle. I later learned it was a KNR MiKa-3 switching tank cars at the US Army ASCOM Supply Depot. What a start to an overseas tour!

In 1969-1970 KNR was using ex-US passenger cars in 3rd class local service, including RDG coaches and combos and some NYC coaches. We saw a UP Harriman diner in a relief train.

There were no ex-US steam locomotives but KNR was using US Army SW-8's with their original 20XX numbers and US Army ownership plates. I understand they came over during the war. In 1970, US Army 44-tonners came over to take over some of the switching from the MiKa-3's.

The oriental characters you saw on the number plates were the class names in the Korean alphabet: MiKa = Mikado etc. followed by the class number and the engine number within the class. Similar to how the Japanese number their engines.

Diesels were numbered US-style with each engine having a road number of its own rather than a number within its class.

Korea had the distinction of having RR clearances generous enough that big US equipment could run such as full-size SD-9's and the "You didn't know EMD built any" SDP-28 and SDP-38's.

Electric City Trolley Museum Association

> Stalin was no "Plinthe Charming",
> but it is amazing that the locomotive is
> unvandalized and no graffiti. Is it the
> Soviet discipline model, or the
> inaccessability of the engine?

This is very typical of display locomotives in the former Soviet Union. No fences, many at ground level, yet no graffiti, and no vandalism. Amazing, isn't it.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a


james1@pernet.net