I found this picture online. Syas it is in Williams Grove, Pa and features B&O cars. Date is 1990.

Anyone have details on these?

Rob

Ahead of the Torch

trains@robertjohndavis.com

These (I believe 2) ex-B&O wooden coaches are/were the property of the Williams Grove Amusement Park & Speedway near Dillsburg, PA. They were part of a whole host of equipment that the park acquired in 1971 from the defunct 1960's era steam tourist operation on the Everett Railroad in Everett, PA.

Other equipment included ex-Moorefield & North Fork RR 2-6-2 11 (since returned to Everett for display), two ex-B&O flat cars that the Everett had turned into open excursion cars, an ex-B&O wooden caboose (also returned to Everett for display), an ex-Huntington & Broad Top Mountain RR 4-wheel wooden caboose, an ex-Erie "stillwell" steel coach, and an ex-DL&W "Boonton" steel coach. This equipment is/was separate from the pieces (including PRR 0-6-0 643) owned and operated by the Williams Grove Historical Steam Engine Association on the park's property.

The WGHSEA uses the two flat cars-turned-excursion cars, but the wood and steel coaches were considered too large for their operation. They were shunted out to the end of their one-mile-long line (as seen in the photo) and basically left to the weather and vandals.

The last time I was there (last year), I didn't notice if the wooden coaches were still intact.

Regards,
Jim Robinson

These wrecks (calling them "cars" by now is being too generous) are wooden body B&O derelicts, parked along a disconnected side track off a NS track near the Williams Grove amusement park, site of the W.G. Historic Steam Engine Assn. near Dillsburg, Pa. (about 12 miles southwest of Harrisburg). These cars were apparently salvaged from the Everett RR operation at the same time that the assn. acquired Everett 2-6-2 11, around 1970.

Suffice it to say that these car have been HEAVILY vandalized, neglected for over 50 years, and at this point have dozens of small and large trees growing THROUGH what is left of them. In addition, several small fires have been ignited in some of the cars, one doing serious damage to one car.

Although I have learned from the British never to say "hopeless", I think the best testimony to their current condition is that neither the Strasburg Rail Road (noted for its rescue and rebuild of wooden coaches over the years) or the B&O Museum (which at times seemingly pursues anything ex-B&O, no matter what the condition), both nearby operations, have done nothing to pursue acquisition of these vintage wrecks, to my knowledge.

Rescuing the relics and using thewheels, frame and original pieces as patterns to replicate a newly-scratchbuilt car is not out of the question, but it seems the only feasible use of the cars at this point.



lner4472@bcpl.net

For the record, the ex-DL&W car is not a Boonton car, but it is a long distance coach, in the 200 series (I believe number 246?), built in the 1920's and modernized in the 1940's. This car lasted on the DL&W until just after the EL merger.

The cars are owned by the amusement park, not by the Steam Association. I made a brief attempt to get the DL&W car, but the owner is not interested in less than a six figure price per car!

Erie Lackawanna Dining Car Preservation Society
tstuy@eldcps.org

I believe the B&O cars were in wreck train service at Somerset, PA, when acquired by the Everett RR in 1965. One was X4200, used as a gift shop, and the other was X4203, used as a "museum car". Neither was operated on the excursion train. Apparently the Everett intended to buy two more - X4015 and X4107, but there is no evidence that they were ever on the property.

As I recall, one of the cars at Williams Grove has been pretty much destroyed by fire.

The steel coaches Everett used were as follows:

101 - ex-Erie Stillwell 2191
102 - ex-Reading 1544
103 - ex-Lackawanna 246

I was told once that the 103 was considered the "fancy" car, but I don't think it got much use since it had sealed windows.

Alan Maples


AMaples@aol.com

> The cars are owned by the amusement park,
> not by the Steam Association. I made a brief
> attempt to get the DL&W car, but the
> owner is not interested in less than a six
> figure price per car!

Isn't that about it! I love these knuckleheads who think that the junk they have is gold, and in the meantime, the stuff just rots away. They really don't care about preservation at all!


Schwartzsj@juno.com

> Isn't that about it! I love these
> knuckleheads who think that the junk they
> have is gold, and in the meantime, the stuff
> just rots away. They really don't care about
> preservation at all!

I think some of these folks might just need some good financial counseling.

A 70 ton coach is worth $42,000 at (i'm really guessing here) @ 30 cents a pound. Six figures is nonsense.

42,000 @ 3% t-bill rate is 1260 bucks annually. So over 10 years, you could make 12,600 without compounding.

Then there's the liability...

Or am I assuming too much financial smarts.



Superheater@beer.com

> I found this picture online. Syas it is in
> Williams Grove, Pa and features B&O
> cars. Date is 1990.

> Anyone have details on these?

> Rob
When I began working as a volunteer at Williams Grove in 1975 one of these cars was clearly lettered Western Union in the letter board. Roy Hunt who worked for the Everett believed they had been converted to camp cars by Western Electric for some of their traveling crews but didn't know any details. The last time I saw the cars this lettering was no longer visible.

My typing mistake. The car was lettered Western Electric not Western Union.

> A 70 ton coach is worth $42,000 at (i'm
> really guessing here) @ 30 cents a pound.
> Six figures is nonsense.

30 cents a pound would be $600 a net ton. Scrap is selling more like $60 a ton (3 cents a pound). And most passenger cars have concrete in the floors, further reducing their value.

The owner of the amusement park at Williams Grove was essentially a carnival man and was used to making outrageous claims. I delt with him a couple of times and found he would eventually get realistic, but you had to be patient.

Alan Maples

AMaples@aol.com