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PRR Pullman scrapped? *PIC*
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Author:  Tom Cornillie [ Sun Oct 06, 2002 10:54 pm ]
Post subject:  PRR Pullman scrapped? *PIC*
Possibly the last steam-styled PRR Pullman, AMTK 16500, has disappeared from its location at AmtrakÂ’s New Brunswick, NJ maintenance facility. I have spoken with the photographer of the car, who reports that all pieces of equipment previously at this location are now gone. In the past Amtrak has contracted to have such equipment scrapped on site - quickly - often within a day. I am hoping that this has not been the case with this car, but it unfortunately seems the most likely answer. In any instance, though, I would like to find out when this equipment moved/was cut and where it is now/or who was contracted to scrap it.

Also, note that while the car appears in rough condition, the photographer reported that many of the sections appeared intact. It is/was certainly not beyond a cosmetic restoration to its Raymond Lowey designed Fleet of Modernism paint scheme.


Jeff Lubchansky's photos of Amtrak relics
Image
rrhistorian@hotmail.com
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Mon Oct 07, 2002 1:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Hardly the last one, though.....
> Possibly the last steam-styled PRR Pullman,
> AMTK 16500, has disappeared from its
> location at AmtrakÂ’s New Brunswick, NJ
> maintenance facility.

Rest assured that five more such Pullmans--PRR Torrance, Urbana, Voyager, and one other whose name escapes me, plus a former NYC one--reside at the Central Pennsylvania Chapter NRHS museum at the former Reading station at White Deer, Pa.

These cars are in former work-train condition, one with a still-functioning propane kitchen. However, several sections remain in each car, complete with bunks, mattresses, and ladders.

Rumor has it that this trainload of Pullmans was detoured by sympathetic Conrail employees en route to the scrapper, and somewhat mysteriously ended up in their present location before donation was arranged. Not quite true, but a juicy story nonetheless!

In the past the group has quietly offered to trade or donate one or several of the cars in exchange for either a gutted Pullman turned into a riding coach or a restoration/conservation job on a car to remain at White Deer. (There are probably enough Pullman parts in the five cars to reassemble two or three cars.) Unfortunately, a flash flood a couple of years ago brought down the adjacent bridge over White Deer Creek, effectively landlocking the cars for the time being. There is still a rail connection to the north (heavily overgrown with several paved crossings) and a possible (albeit difficult) trucking option.

Bennett, do 120 and Warrior Ridge need an authentic PRR companion? <:-)

lner4472@bcpl.net
Author:  Bennett Levin [ Mon Oct 07, 2002 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Sandy!!!!!!!!!
Does Bennett need another head?

Last week someone suggested that I apply to become my own NRHS chapter.

v-scarpitti@worldnet.att.net
Author:  H.O. [ Mon Oct 07, 2002 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:  B. Levin Chap.
Actually, not a bad idea. And with your own train, already.

hcastle@rcn.com
Author:  Bennett Levin [ Mon Oct 07, 2002 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: B. Levin Chap.
I meant to say, "Do I need a third head?"

v-scarpitti@worldnet.att.net
Author:  Tom Cornillie [ Mon Oct 07, 2002 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hardly the last one, though.....
> Rest assured that five more such
> Pullmans--PRR Torrance, Urbana, Voyager, and
> one other whose name escapes me, plus a
> former NYC one--reside at the Central
> Pennsylvania Chapter NRHS museum at the
> former Reading station at White Deer, Pa.

These are all stream-styled heavyweights? While I have never seen a roster, it is my understanding that there were very few stream-styled heavyweights in PRR MofW service. Do you have any photos, or know of any on the web?


rrhistorian@hotmail.com
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Mon Oct 07, 2002 6:13 pm ]
Post subject:  "Steam" or "Stream"??
> These are all stream-styled heavyweights?
> While I have never seen a roster, it is my
> understanding that there were very few
> stream-styled heavyweights in PRR MofW
> service. Do you have any photos, or know of
> any on the web?

Your original post said "steam-styled", not "stream-styled". I admit the five at White Deer are traditional heavyweight clearstory cars.


lner4472@bcpl.net
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Mon Oct 07, 2002 6:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: B. Levin Chap. <:-)
> I meant to say, "Do I need a third
> head?"

On the other hand, now, if you declared Juniata Terminal a 501(c)3........... but then you'd have to hire a team of paper-pushers instead of carmen........... <;-)

lner4472@bcpl.net
Author:  Tom Cornillie [ Tue Oct 08, 2002 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: "Steam" or "Stream"?? *PIC*
> Your original post said "steam-styled", not "stream-styled".

(Note: There are some words which do not lend themselves well to typos – like leaving the ‘l’ out of Public or the ‘r’ out of Shirt – it can create an entirely different meaning)
I only know of one other surviving Pullman Stream-Styled car (also known as Betterment Cars) the Emerald Waters, preserved at the B&O Museum but formally owned by the Collis P. Huntington Chapter of the NRHS. Stream-Styled cars are significant in showing the major compromise that railroads and Pullman made in updating their passenger trains before WWII. Instead of purchasing high-speed trainsets that would not be compatible with existing equipment, they opted for designs that would be compatible their existing stock but would allow only incremental improvements in schedules.



Image
rrhistorian@hotmail.com
Author:  Frank Hicks [ Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: "Steam" or "Stream"?? *PIC*
> I only know of one other surviving Pullman
> Stream-Styled car (also known as Betterment
> Cars) the Emerald Waters, preserved at the
> B&O Museum but formally owned by the
> Collis P. Huntington Chapter of the NRHS.

Would this count? Pictured below is Union Pacific #576, built by Pullman in 1931 and rebuilt in 1948. It is preserved at the San Diego Railroad Museum.

Frank Hicks

Image
fullparallel@wideopenwest.com
Author:  Tom Cornillie [ Wed Oct 09, 2002 2:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: "Steam" or "Stream"??
I would not qualify this car as a Stream-Styled Pullman because it is not a sleeper, and thus, PullmanÂ’s operating wing had no influence over its rebuilding. In my opinion, Pullman's tremendous power to influence both sleeping car design limited the evolution passenger train design. This car, while built by Pullman and re-built along the standard Pullman Stream-Styling - represents the efforts by railroads to update their own coach fleets.

For more information on the evolution of passenger trains see Pennsy Streamliners: The Blue Ribbon Fleet by Joe Welsh
Kalmbach Publishing Company, Released: July, 1999


rrhistorian@hotmail.com
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