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| 4-4-0 Reno Shipped Overseas https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=42484 |
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| Author: | RedRiver&Gulf104 [ Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | 4-4-0 Reno Shipped Overseas |
Hello All, I was doing some research on some of the Virginia & Truckee locomotives, and found this mention of the locomotive Reno having gone overseas to Switzerland for some sort of rail related event not long after having been obtained (or just prior to) By Old Tuscon. Does anyone know if this statement is correct, and if so, anything about this trip? 
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:05 am ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: 4-4-0 Reno Shipped Overseas | ||
This certainly looks like the typical layout for an Arcadia Publishing photo book--which publishes books with "fact-checking" ranging from meticulous to (mostly) non-existent. I have no ability to prove that this didn't happen, but I would view such a claim with extreme skepticism, just because it's in an Arcadia book.
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| Author: | 70000 [ Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 4-4-0 Reno Shipped Overseas |
Nothing mentioned about a trip out of the US on this listing.... http://www.virginiaandtruckee.com/Locomotive/No11.htm ...and it seems to be a fairly comprehensive list, giving details of the films/adverts that it has appeared in over the years as well. Would have thought a trip to Switzerland would have been rather expensive, just for a display and I cant recall anything being mentioned in the UK rail magazines of the time, which, due to the nature of the visit, would surely have warrented it featuring! Getting the 2 North American A4's to York museum a few years back for the "Great Gathering" was expensive enough, though one of the Senior Management of the NRM at that period did make mention that they would like to have an "American 4-4-0" on loan for display at some time......... |
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| Author: | LeoA [ Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 4-4-0 Reno Shipped Overseas |
Nothing in the Trains Magazine DVD archive about this, either. Certainly seems like an event that would've rated a mention back then, either in the photo news portion or the arrivals & departures column if there wasn't a photo. And had Kalmbach missed this, I bet a reader would've written in and it would've appeared in the reader letters section that was near the end of each issue back then. |
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| Author: | softwerkslex [ Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 4-4-0 Reno Shipped Overseas |
Maybe it was Switzerland, Ohio? |
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| Author: | NS 3322 [ Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 4-4-0 Reno Shipped Overseas |
softwerkslex wrote: Maybe it was Switzerland, Ohio? Sugarcreek? |
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| Author: | James Fouchard [ Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 4-4-0 Reno Shipped Overseas |
Larry Jensen, author of “The Movie Railroads” and other more recent books on the Sierra and Virginia & Truckee RR equipment used in films would probably be a good source to confirm or deny this. |
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| Author: | James Fouchard [ Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 4-4-0 Reno Shipped Overseas |
I contacted Larry Jensen, author of "The Movie Railroads" and "Hollywood Railroads" book series about this and here is his reply: "Yes. Reno was air-freighted to Switzerland in the late 1980s. It was freshly painted and lettered "Virginia & Truckee" and there are photos of it there before or after the trip. This was likely the last full paint job it got. I have never seen a shot of it there. But someone will probably come up with one if it's on the message board.... I don't recollect it being in Stephen Drew's V&T book from Arcadia, but I may not have been paying attention..." I noticed there is an Images Of America book published by Arcadia on Old Tucson Studios, perhaps the photo is from there. |
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| Author: | hamster [ Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 4-4-0 Reno Shipped Overseas |
Air freighted? In the 1980's? I worked in air cargo in the 1990's and am familiar with the 747-200F. In the 1980's the 747-200F was the largest commercial freighter and while it did have the lift capacity in total tonnage, the main deck loading was restricted to about 120 pounds per square foot. According to the V&T website, Reno weighs 34 tons with 22-1/2 tons, or 45,000 Lb on the drivers. If just the locomotive is considered and is assumed to be 36 feet long by 6 feet wide it has a footprint of roughly 216 square feet. That is a load of 208 Lb/sq. ft. The Reno is probably small enough to load into the cargo bay of a 474, but the floor loading is far too heavy. Special strengthening of the main cargo deck could have been done, but the cost would have been nearly prohibitive, even for a movie company. If anyone can find out the details of this air freight trip I would love to hear about it. |
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| Author: | 70000 [ Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 4-4-0 Reno Shipped Overseas |
hamster wrote: Air freighted? In the 1980's? I worked in air cargo in the 1990's and am familiar with the 747-200F. In the 1980's the 747-200F was the largest commercial freighter and while it did have the lift capacity in total tonnage, the main deck loading was restricted to about 120 pounds per square foot. According to the V&T website, Reno weighs 34 tons with 22-1/2 tons, or 45,000 Lb on the drivers. If just the locomotive is considered and is assumed to be 36 feet long by 6 feet wide it has a footprint of roughly 216 square feet. That is a load of 208 Lb/sq. ft. The Reno is probably small enough to load into the cargo bay of a 474, but the floor loading is far too heavy. Special strengthening of the main cargo deck could have been done, but the cost would have been nearly prohibitive, even for a movie company. If anyone can find out the details of this air freight trip I would love to hear about it. I know one or more Irish Rail GM diesels were delivered by air - but that was using an Antonov 124 https://tumblr.gerwitz.com/post/1571577 ... dublin-via Couldn't find anything about an elderly 4-4-0 being loaded on a plane though - even as a kit of parts.... |
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| Author: | J3a-614 [ Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 4-4-0 Reno Shipped Overseas |
hamster wrote: Air freighted? In the 1980's? I worked in air cargo in the 1990's and am familiar with the 747-200F. In the 1980's the 747-200F was the largest commercial freighter and while it did have the lift capacity in total tonnage, the main deck loading was restricted to about 120 pounds per square foot. According to the V&T website, Reno weighs 34 tons with 22-1/2 tons, or 45,000 Lb on the drivers. If just the locomotive is considered and is assumed to be 36 feet long by 6 feet wide it has a footprint of roughly 216 square feet. That is a load of 208 Lb/sq. ft. The Reno is probably small enough to load into the cargo bay of a 474, but the floor loading is far too heavy. Special strengthening of the main cargo deck could have been done, but the cost would have been nearly prohibitive, even for a movie company. If anyone can find out the details of this air freight trip I would love to hear about it. I looked up the weights for the engine, and they do supposedly quote a "dry" weight, with no water in the boiler and less some other things. I could be wrong, but eyeballing the size of No. 11, the quoted weight looks more like it might be for working order, which could be as much as double the dry weight. The rated tractive effort--11,920 lbs.--with the quoted weight 45,000 lbs. on drivers (working order) gives the engine a factor of adhesion of about 3.8. That's a bit under the normally desired 4.0, but it's not entirely out of line (N&W 611 has a similar factor of adhesion). If those weights are wrong--if they are for working order instead of dry, and the factor of adhesion seems to suggest it--then the weight as shipped would be a good deal less. |
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| Author: | jayrod [ Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 4-4-0 Reno Shipped Overseas |
hamster wrote: Air freighted? In the 1980's? I worked in air cargo in the 1990's and am familiar with the 747-200F. In the 1980's the 747-200F was the largest commercial freighter and while it did have the lift capacity in total tonnage, the main deck loading was restricted to about 120 pounds per square foot. According to the V&T website, Reno weighs 34 tons with 22-1/2 tons, or 45,000 Lb on the drivers. If just the locomotive is considered and is assumed to be 36 feet long by 6 feet wide it has a footprint of roughly 216 square feet. That is a load of 208 Lb/sq. ft. The Reno is probably small enough to load into the cargo bay of a 474, but the floor loading is far too heavy. Special strengthening of the main cargo deck could have been done, but the cost would have been nearly prohibitive, even for a movie company. If anyone can find out the details of this air freight trip I would love to hear about it. While chugging my morning coffee I got a bit curious. Looking at the maximum pallet weight for a 747-200F, the nominal floor design load calcs out to 180 psf not including the safety factor. You can crib out to spread the weight of the Reno. Even easier if you remove weight like the smoke stack and cab. The limiting factor would have been the 98" maximum allowable height through the nose door. If you could somehow get it in there, I wouldn't want to see the freight charge. Ocean freight would have been much more practical and cost effective. My two cents.... |
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| Author: | Mount Royal [ Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 4-4-0 Reno Shipped Overseas |
I recall a turbo-prop Boeing Super Guppy flying in civilian service at the time. It would have been capable, no? |
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| Author: | John T [ Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 4-4-0 Reno Shipped Overseas |
If you can fly an M1A1 tank I don't see where the Reno would be a problem. But why? |
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| Author: | hamster [ Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 4-4-0 Reno Shipped Overseas |
John T wrote: If you can fly an M1A1 tank I don't see where the Reno would be a problem. But why? The only aircraft capable of handling the 60 ton M1A1 is a military cargo plane like the C5A with decks designed specifically for weights like that. The C5A can handle two Abrams tanks, not because they weigh too much or that are too large to fit but because of weight and balance issues. The largest civilian cargo transports have the total weight capacity to fly 2 Abrams tanks but not the deck loading to handle 312 pounds per square foot. |
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