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Delaware and Hudson Alco C628 in Mexico for possible sale.
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Author:  NS 3322 [ Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Delaware and Hudson Alco C628 in Mexico for possible sale.
While on Facebook I stumbled onto a photo of C628 DH #610 which is presently located at the Yucatan Railway Museum. In the comments section I found the usual "bring it home" comment. The Yucatan Railway Museum responded to that with this:

Yucatan Railway Museum wrote:
Yes, as there are two here and the museum needs money. a good idea. Anything serious on this. Let me know. No time wasting please.

(This was posted sometime in August 2018).

I am doubtful that this locomotive will return (prove me wrong!), but I am posting this to inform our community. I personally was unaware that a C628 still existed (let alone two) until about an hour ago (there is also a third in Australia). The original D&H shield can still be seen on the front of the locomotive.

I believe this is the only US locomotive in the museum's collection. The others were built specifically for Mexican Lines (which include an F7A, M424W, and the other C628).

For those who are curious it is located approximately at 20.977518, -89.611764. And yes, the museum is connected to live rail.

Attachments:
File comment: Photo by Sigfrido Pérez. Photo taken in December 2018.
610.JPG
610.JPG [ 103.58 KiB | Viewed 12698 times ]
Author:  diningcartim [ Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Delaware and Hudson Alco C628 in Mexico for possible sal
Delaware Lackawanna?
Author:  NS 3322 [ Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Delaware and Hudson Alco C628 in Mexico for possible sal
diningcartim wrote:
Delaware Lackawanna?


Someone on Facebook said that the current CMO does not want a C628. But that could be wrong.
Author:  midwest fred [ Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Delaware and Hudson Alco C628 in Mexico for possible sal
Is there not also an ex-LIRR C420 there ? Merida yes?

Fred
Author:  Richard Glueck [ Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Delaware and Hudson Alco C628 in Mexico for possible sal
Yes, there is a LIRR C420 in the collection. It's a bit cobbled together from spare parts, but it does exist. I've always love the C628 locomotive. Getting one, even just a car body, and returning it to D&H colors would be a really fine collection piece.
Author:  NS 3322 [ Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Delaware and Hudson Alco C628 in Mexico for possible sal
Richard Glueck wrote:
Yes, there is a LIRR C420 in the collection. It's a bit cobbled together from spare parts, but it does exist. I've always love the C628 locomotive. Getting one, even just a car body, and returning it to D&H colors would be a really fine collection piece.


Thanks for confirming that there is a LIRR C420 in the collection! Would that be NdeM 220?

I agree, it would look great just as a shell. From this photo it looks like the fans are intact, so there is hope that some internals are still there.
Image
Author:  AlcoC420 [ Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Delaware and Hudson Alco C628 in Mexico for possible sal
I can see right up and through that radiator compartment. Where are the radiators?

If the radiators are gone, that means no radiator headers/ends to install new cores to.

Also no radiator shutters.

What else is missing?
Author:  NS 3322 [ Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Delaware and Hudson Alco C628 in Mexico for possible sal
AlcoC420 wrote:
I can see right up and through that radiator compartment. Where are the radiators?

If the radiators are gone, that means no radiator headers/ends to install new cores to.

Also no radiator shutters.

What else is missing?


Even if major internal pieces are missing, it would still make a great display piece. There are only 3 of these left in the world (2 in Mexico, 1 in Australia)!
Author:  kevin kohls [ Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Delaware and Hudson Alco C628 in Mexico for possible sal
Certainly worth saving and doing a cosmetic restoration. They looked great in the as delivered D&H paint scheme.

Kevin K
Author:  daylight4449 [ Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Delaware and Hudson Alco C628 in Mexico for possible sal
So if someone really wants to pull this off, we've got some questions that will have to be answered first...

1) What needs to be done to make the locomotive interchangeable?
2) What needs to be done for a cosmetic restoration?
3) What needs to be done for an operational restoration?
4) Where can the unit be housed?
5) How do we raise the money to acquire and move the unit?

If we can answer those here, I think that we may be able to get a group together to bring this unit home...
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Delaware and Hudson Alco C628 in Mexico for possible sal
You forgot #6:

Who has to be bribed to get it out of Mexico, and how much?
Author:  NS 3322 [ Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Delaware and Hudson Alco C628 in Mexico for possible sal
daylight4449 wrote:
So if someone really wants to pull this off, we've got some questions that will have to be answered first...

1) What needs to be done to make the locomotive interchangeable?
2) What needs to be done for a cosmetic restoration?
3) What needs to be done for an operational restoration?
4) Where can the unit be housed?
5) How do we raise the money to acquire and move the unit?

If we can answer those here, I think that we may be able to get a group together to bring this unit home...


I do not think #3 has to be answered. But I agree that all the others need to be answered.
Author:  daylight4449 [ Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Delaware and Hudson Alco C628 in Mexico for possible sal
NS 3322 wrote:
daylight4449 wrote:
So if someone really wants to pull this off, we've got some questions that will have to be answered first...

1) What needs to be done to make the locomotive interchangeable?
2) What needs to be done for a cosmetic restoration?
3) What needs to be done for an operational restoration?
4) Where can the unit be housed?
5) How do we raise the money to acquire and move the unit?

If we can answer those here, I think that we may be able to get a group together to bring this unit home...


I do not think #3 has to be answered. But I agree that all the others need to be answered.

I would argue it wouldn't hurt to answer the third point... It could help in the future if operational restoration becomes plausible to know what the unit needs, or could inform whether operational restoration is feasible or not.
Author:  Eric S Strohmeyer [ Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Delaware and Hudson Alco C628 in Mexico for possible sal
Good evening all,

If any group does make a bona fide attempt to repatriate this locomotive back to the US, I would respectfully ask that they share how they were successful in obtaining the required EPA emission certification document necessary in order for the locomotive to clear US Customs.

In 2008, the US EPA promulgated new emission control regulations for locomotives being imported into the United States. While there are numerous exemptions for equipment owned or operated by Class I carriers who routinely cross both our northern and southern borders, the exemptions do NOT apply to everyone bringing a locomotive into the United States. For rebuilders / remanufacturers there are rigorous testing and certification requirements for bringing diesel locomotive engines into the United States.

Previously existing exemptions that were long used to bring secondhand locomotives into the United States were "sunsetted" in the early days of the Obama administration.

You might ask - "Why are you raising this warning?". The answer is simple. For the past two years I (along with well-known cab unit guru Richard Jahn) have been actively working on trying to get an exemption needed to import a locomotive with an EMD-built prime mover. Since the prime mover was built after 1973, it would normally have been equipped with a US EPA emission certification label somewhere on the block. However, since the prime movers were built by EMD for export, EMD never placed a US EPA emission label on the block. For those that want to learn more about the headache, see: 40 CFR § 1033.135

Without an emission label on the block placed by the manufacturer, or remanufacturer, the problem of importing a diesel locomotive goes from simple - to highly problematic - in a blink of an eye.

When asked directly, EMD made clear that it will NOT issue an emission compliance certificate for a non conforming engine block (even though they built the prime mover) because they take the position that EMD was NOT the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) for the locomotive "system". In the case of the D&H locomotive, ALCO has been out of business now for decades. The new "Alco" division of FM is not the same legal entity that built the locomotive. SInce the block may likely have been built before 1973, it is almost certain that the block likely does NOT have the required labeling.

I would reasonably expect that a historical society would likely face the same trouble we are having in getting an older, non-conforming diesel engine back into the United States.

Now, for those quick to scream "Hey, Aren't there other exemptions that could apply?" The answer is that all those other exemptions apply to every other type of vehicle EXCEPT diesel engines in locomotives!

If a party can successfully navigate the EPA emission headaches and acquire the required documentation from the EPA for importing an older prime mover in a locomotive, I would greatly appreciate knowing how that was done within the current regulatory environment.

Best of luck to whoever takes on the challenge. I'd love to see a D&H C628 returned to the United States!
Author:  Scranton Yard [ Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Delaware and Hudson Alco C628 in Mexico for possible sal
Mr. Strohmeyer - Thank you for raising awareness of this issue. As if reimporting an artifact was not already difficult enough. I have not had the opportunity to read your cites, so I apologize in advance if my questions are ignorant of an easy answer.

1. What if you remove the prime mover and just ship the rest of the loco?
2. What if you then break down the prime mover into larger subassemblies and ship it as repair/replacement parts?

From a quick read of you concise synopsis, breaking down the prime mover in the second step may likely not be necessary since the diesel is no longer in the locomotive and so, from my read, the regs may not apply.

3. Does this apply only to diesel locomotives or does it cover all forms of hydrocarbon combustion powertrains in locomotives?
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