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What goes into running a successful tourist railroad?
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=43172		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  tweetsie12 [ Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  What goes into running a successful tourist railroad?
Alright, So I've had this question on my mind for a while, but first, a little background. In my hometown of Winston-Salem, NC, there's a line of unused railroad tracks that had long since been abandoned by Norfolk Southern, due to a collapsed bridge on the Yadkin River. So one day, I came up with a crazy idea to buy the line from NS and operate it as a tourist railroad, which I would call the Yadkin River Railroad. The line would've 100% Steam Powered, with the trains being pulled by a Chinese SY class 2-8-2 Mikado bought from Multipower International. From there, I would've purchased a ton of passenger cars from Ozark Mountain Railcar, and operate daily steam excursions. Eventually, I dropped the idea, as I figured out it would've been WAY too pricey. Heck, even my Y6B Trust project would be cheaper than this. Recently, I've been wondering what my fantasy tourist line would've been like HAD I decided to go to peruse it, and ultimately lead to this question: How do you run a successful tourist railroad, and what goes into running one?
Author:  Kelly Anderson [ Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What goes into running a successful tourist railroad?
.
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What goes into running a successful tourist railroad?
Either 1) being in a major tourism destination or 2) taking people to one.

Also, catering to the demands of non-railroad buffs and families. That means clean and modern rest rooms, Decent-looking equipment and buildings, food options if appropriate, and a reasonably short experience OR a spectacular enough experience to warrant hours of travel.
Author:  Brian Norden [ Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What goes into running a successful tourist railroad?
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Also, catering to the demands of non-railroad buffs and families. That means clean and modern rest rooms, Decent-looking equipment and buildings, food options if appropriate, and a reasonably short experience OR a spectacular enough experience to warrant hours of travel.
Additionally, a location/site that is not dusty or muddy: hard surface (paved) walkways and parking. This will made the location friendly to the mobility impaired and for baby strollers, etc.

It has been noted that wives and mothers are the ones who often decide about return visits.
Author:  Richard Glueck [ Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What goes into running a successful tourist railroad?
Keeping your plan modest from the start and not acquiring every piece of rusted junk that was once beautiful. You can grow after your funding becomes established and regular. Keeping it clean and putting in far more hours doing un-spectacular things that nobody necessarily enjoys, but have to be done.
Author:  softwerkslex [ Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What goes into running a successful tourist railroad?
Clean toilets
Author:  Bartman-TN [ Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What goes into running a successful tourist railroad?
The concept of operating a successful excursion/tourist railroad is a hard one. It is a business and must be treated like one to last. Here are a few of the points that should be considered.

[1] Population Base - It is important, but not the only factor. A large population base within several hours can help, especially when operating theme events such as Polar Express and Thomas. However, local population it is not the only key factor as a number of successful operations operate in rather isolated locations - Nevada Northern and the White Pass & Yukon, for example.

[2] Tourism Base - Railroads like the Durango & Silverton and White Pass & Yukon operate successfully due to their connection to the local tourism industry. In particular, the WP&Y is closely aligned with the cruise ship industry. Having connections to large volumes of people in the area as part of larger events really helps.

[3] Scenery or Historic Base - Certain locations attract large seasonal crowds, such as National Parks, Beaches, etc. These can benefit a tourist railroad if they are viewed as part of the event, or hurt them if they are not. Look at what will pull possible passengers away from an operation as well as what will pull them into the area. For example, look at the difficulty of maintaining a tourist railroad in the backyard of Disney World.

[4] Funding - Any operation needs to have the funding to get started, to acquire equipment, pay insurance, and survive several years of development or poor economy. Many operations survive week to week, often out of the pockets of volunteers. There must be sufficient money to repair the locomotive or passenger cars when they break down, and quickly. Can you get a loan quickly and then repay it? Many operations have failed because a single piece of equipment breaks down, or they can’t make insurance payments.

[5] Passenger Equipment - If you don’t have 250 seats available in coach, you can’t run many of the special events. The equipment needs to be a mix of historic (it looks like an old-timey train) but modern enough to be comfortable (nice seats, restrooms, heat and air, etc.). You also need one hundred or more luxury seats in lounge service for higher price seating, and often for tour groups. Groups like Tennessee Valley and Strasburg have this figured out, have capacity!

[6] Locomotives - Steam seems sexy, but it is very costly. Ask yourself, will it matter to the passengers. Look at the historic nature of your operations to see if it is important. For some tourist railroads, steam is a part of their history and is important (Strasburg, D&S, Cumbres & Toltec, etc). Others use steam for special events and diesel power for normal operations (Grand Canyon). Many survive with diesel because the route is the attraction, or there is another reason for ridership. The Cuyahoga Valley is a great example where diesel operates well, but special steam operations keep them in the news. Many steam tourist railroads are closed (East Broad Top anyone?) while many diesel operations are successful. Steam is not majic and diesel is not a pariah.

[7] Railroad Objective - Why is the tourist railroad being operated? What is the theme? Many operations started simply because some track existed or there were a few folks who wanted to run trains. That is great, but why should someone buy a ticket? I have ridden almost every operation in Kalmbach’s book, and some I just wonder why they are even there. What purpose does the railroad serve? Others, such as Steam Into History, have a very clear theme. Right or wrong, why does the railroad even exist? Can they change as needed?

[8] Talent - Who manages and operates the railroad is important. Is there enough talent to survive vacations, moves and deaths? Are there people with the proper talents (marketing, operations, fund-raising, regulatory compliance, etc.)? Too many operations were one-horse shows with one backer and finance provider. See where they sit today - equipment sold off and the tracks unused or even gone. What is your survival plan? Tennessee Valley (TVRM) survived the death of Bob Soule and has grown enormously since. Strasburg has been through several teams of management, but it still runs. Will it be paid or volunteer - and how? Both survive, but professionalism eventually requires full-time staff and professionals hired for specific tasks. Can the founders handle this change or will they take their baseball home with them?

[9] Regulatory Compliance - There are laws, can the operation comply with them? Do you understand what FRA regs apply? OSHA? State Employment? Etc.? Will your maintenance and operations comply?

[10] Special Events - What do you do to encourage people to come back? Special events can be longer versions of the normal trip, sunset events, holiday themes, Thomas and Polar, etc. Can you handle them? Do you need them? What works? One of the most popular events we used to operate was on Thanksgiving Friday, called the “I gotta get out of the house and do something” trips. We found that with the good weather, many families were looking for things to do with their out-of-town guests. We became one of those activities, with little competition. The weather starts shutting down northern tourist trains by Thanksgiving and they often don’t open until May or June (or even July). Operations in the south can operate all year, but summer can be a challenge.

[11] Marketing - This is essential, and it is not just buying advertisements. Do you have special events that attract the news media, are there local newspapers or online medial locations that will cover your operation? Can you manage websites, Facebook, Twitter, and the many other social media sites effectively? You need someone who can represent the operation at the local Chamber of Commerce, tourism board, on TV and radio, etc. This is harder than it seems and should be designated. What brochures will you have? Lots of ways to help the railroad here, and to hurt it.

[12] Track - How long of a trip do you want to have (60-90 minutes is good for most families), so how much track do you need? Is there a destination at one or both ends that impact the trip length? A destination can really help as it gives a purpose for the ride, but can also reduce the trip distance required. You also need sufficient storage tracks for your equipment, tracks to hide your “future projects”, and shop tracks. A wye or turntable is a big help so you can turn equipment, and sidings are also great so you can run the locomotive around the equipment. Ownership is best, but some operations have long-term agreements.

[13] Structures - Station, shop, bridges, etc., must be in good condition. A station isn’t required, but restrooms are. However, a station is needed (or a big help) for a gift shop (unless it is on the train) and company offices.

[14] Property - Do you have any control over the property around you, or will the beautiful woods become a distribution center? Cuyahoga Valley operates through park land, so their scenery is pretty safe. Strasburg, TVRM, Illinois Railway Museum, and others are buying the land along their operations to ensure that the views remain, and that they can grow as needed. What efforts are needed to protect the theme of the railroad?

[15] Partnerships - Can you create partnerships with other tourist attractions, tour events, and even competing tourist railroads? Swapping equipment, timing events, etc., can make an operation look new or make it an attraction to new ticket buyers.

[16] Tourism Changes - Tourism is changing. People are looking to be involved in events, not just see them. They want to be involved with the restoration activities, tour the shops, have meals and such in unique places, stay on the property, etc. Demographics are also changing, with one of the largest international populations in the country in a century. Can you handle multiple languages (a tourist railroad I volunteered with had riders from more than 20 countries in one year) and cultural practices? Other types of attractions are booming. Sports gambling, for example, is growing. What will set your operation aside from the others and make it successful?

[17] Budget and Revenue Plan - Do you have one? Do you know what things actually cost (equipment, fuel, labor, insurance, maintenance, etc.) and are you prepared to pay for them from the ticket revenue? What do competing events charge and will you fit in? Some locations specialize on the lower cost, family events. Other locations are a once-in a child’s life expensive event (think Disney World) that can cost thousands of dollars for just a few days. Can you compete? I buy a day ticket at Disney World, I’m not leaving as I try to get my money’s worth. If you are in an area with free beaches, $10 T-shirt stores, and $5 miniature golf, a $30 ticket for a one-hour train ride is a hard sell. Understand the revenue versus budget issue.

This is just a bit of the planning required for any business, and how it relates to tourist railroads. Good luck, and I am sure others will add plenty.
Author:  Tails [ Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What goes into running a successful tourist railroad?
Richard Glueck wrote:
Keeping it clean and putting in far more hours doing un-spectacular things that nobody necessarily enjoys, but have to be done.



Thats like 95% of running a railroad right there. Even when your working on a steam project, thats the vast majority of the work you do. Stuff most people cannot see. But important to the process.
Author:  Alan Maples [ Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What goes into running a successful tourist railroad?
Tourist railroading is an entertainment business that requires an unfortunate amount of heavy capital equipment to generate the first dollar in sales. With a handful of exceptions for unique attractions, the general rule is proximity to market, clean, affordable, kid-friendly, and so on. Know how to read and produce financial statements.

Alan Maples
Everett Railroad
Author:  Crescent-Zephyr [ Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What goes into running a successful tourist railroad?
I’ll echo the above great points...

- a clean and accessible facility. Invest in having enough easily accessible restrooms, and invest in keeping them clean. This is way more important than people think. (And most railroads, even the big names, fail in this department.)

- provide a consistent experience for your guests along with a simple schedule. I think running a diesel train 2 times a day, 7 days a week is better than running a diesel at 1 time on Monday and Tuesday, 2 times on Wednesday and Thursday, and then steam 4 times on Friday and Saturday but not on the 3rd Sunday of each month during a full moon! Seriously, make it easy to understand and provide a consistent experience.

- when people arrive, make sure they feel welcomed. Not just by the staff, but the appearance of the grounds. I’ve seen so many faded signs, torn banners, etc... make sure it looks good. Hopefully the train itself is in good condition too.
Author:  NS6770fan [ Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What goes into running a successful tourist railroad?
tweetsie12 wrote:
Alright, So I've had this question on my mind for a while, but first, a little background. In my hometown of Winston-Salem, NC, there's a line of unused railroad tracks that had long since been abandoned by Norfolk Southern, due to a collapsed bridge on the Yadkin River. So one day, I came up with a crazy idea to buy the line from NS and operate it as a tourist railroad, which I would call the Yadkin River Railroad. The line would've 100% Steam Powered, with the trains being pulled by a Chinese SY class 2-8-2 Mikado bought from Multipower International. From there, I would've purchased a ton of passenger cars from Ozark Mountain Railcar, and operate daily steam excursions. Eventually, I dropped the idea, as I figured out it would've been WAY too pricey. Heck, even my Y6B Trust project would be cheaper than this. Recently, I've been wondering what my fantasy tourist line would've been like HAD I decided to go to peruse it, and ultimately lead to this question: How do you run a successful tourist railroad, and what goes into running one?

Not a bad idea, but does NS have any industries along this line AT ALL? Even with the bridge collapse, they could still service some places. Can’t see NS selling business to a tourist line.
Author:  Dave [ Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What goes into running a successful tourist railroad?
OK, apart from the obvious that you are starting from the POV of the railroad you want to build rather than fist looking at whether or not there's a need and market for any tourist railroad, and, if so, what would it look like?

You have no lack of people in your area to talk to about it - New Hope Valley has been developing a market based perspective (hard fight) for several years now, people there would be pleased to share their experiences with you. GSMRR is one of the railroads operated by a tourist railroad marketing powerhouse that KNOWS it from a more business and less hardware perspective. Old Salem is probably THE history based tourist destination in your town - talk to their marketing people about who coms there and what they want, and whether you might fit in somehow to their programming as a partner. Newton Depot is doing a great job of developing to fill a defined market niche.

Make the calls, line up some interviews, and make some visits.
Author:  Tyler H. [ Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What goes into running a successful tourist railroad?
Some very good advice in this thread, especially the cohesive list from Bartman-TN. I think our operation has done well with what we have considering our limitations, while I hope to contribute to improvments in the future.
Author:  Pegasuspinto [ Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What goes into running a successful tourist railroad?
OWN
YOUR
TRACKS

If you own the tracks, you could get a lot of smiles putting a motorcar up and down the rails for little cash. But even if you own a restored steamer with a beautiful period correct passenger train to go with it, you're kinda screwed if you don't have a rail to run on.
Author:  Crescent-Zephyr [ Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What goes into running a successful tourist railroad?
I'll add this too..

Hard Work and just plain luck goes into it as well. How much market research went into the creation of the Strasburg Railroad? or TVRM. or IRM. the list goes on. Many of the early railroads started as hobbies for some guys that liked trains and they grew into miniature disney parks (or at least they appear that way during Thomas / Polar seasons).
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