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| Railroad telegraphy https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4319 |
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| Author: | Dick [ Mon Nov 04, 2002 10:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Railroad telegraphy |
From my very limited knowledge, I understand that the railroads maintained telegraph communications long after telephones and radios became commonplace. If so, why was this? |
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| Author: | Glen Brewer [ Tue Nov 05, 2002 10:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Railroad telegraphy |
I would speculate that it was primarily reluctance or inability to spend the money required to convert the wire lines to voice quality or buy and maintain raidios which did not have proven reliability. I might add that the telegraph was perceived as a form of written communication like a letter or modern e-mail -- even commercial business often used telegraph for this reason when a written record was required. The telephone, by contrast, was considered more transient. gbrewer@yahoo.com |
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| Author: | Phil Mulligan [ Tue Nov 05, 2002 2:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Railroad telegraphy |
Railroads generally owned and operated their own complete communication systems; it wasn't the case of installing a PBX and some phones and using the local Bell company. As to the dispatching system, the telegraph system was in place and working; the dispatchers, agents and operators were all qualified to use it. After the 1929 stock crash, money to upgrade the communication system was hard to come by, and during WWII, there was money, but the hardware was hard to get. Where operating savings could justify the cost the roads did convert from telegraph to voice. Remember too, voice radio came into its own during WWII (ship-based Navy scouting aircraft carried Morse-qualified radiomen) so voice radio use would not be feasible on the RR until 1946 or later. Some roads did install radio then. Before transistors, radios used vacuum tubes which required a strong power source; batteries were heavy, and the tubes were susceptable to vibration which abounds on RR equipment. Some roads had local union agreements that paid crewmembers extra if they used radios. Electric City Trolley Museum Association |
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| Author: | David Ackerman [ Tue Nov 05, 2002 4:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Railroad telegraphy |
I saw an interesting presentation once that raised one other interesting point. At a Wabash Railway Historical Society convention in St. Louis a number of years back a former Wabash Tellegrapher and a telegraph enthusiast gave another partial answer to just that question. With a little help from a "amplifying" cigar tin or something similair, incoming telegraphy was easily sepperated from the background noise in a station. Since it was essentially "digital" it was not as suceptible to noise or signal loss. Not so early radio, which was quite sesceptible to interference and signal loss, and thus apparently much more difficult to understand over the racket from the nearby line, or whatever else might interfere. It gave you a much more "hands off" way to listen to incoming communication traffic without large costly equippment. Or so I was told, in any case. And this seems quite plausible, so I pass it along here. I forget the agents name, but I can look it up. I believe he is still living if anyone is interested. Sincerely, David Ackerman david_ackerman@yahoo.com |
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| Author: | Superheater [ Wed Nov 06, 2002 11:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Railroad telegraphy-a forgotten aspect |
> > just that question. With a little help from > a "amplifying" cigar tin or > something similair, incoming telegraphy was > easily sepperated from the background noise > in a station. Since it was essentially > "digital" it was not as suceptible > to noise or signal loss. Not so early radio, > which was quite sesceptible to interference > and signal loss, and thus apparently much > more difficult to understand over the racket > from the nearby line, or whatever else might > interfere. This might be one of the most forgotten aspects of railroad history, maybe not among us-but among the general public. Its hard to imagine (for people used to Cell phones, beepers and PDA's) that 70 plus years ago, the RR station was was a communication outlet as well as a transportion place. I wonder if any museum ever invited some local telegraphy preservation folks to their museum to illustrate (interpret) their craft as an integral part of RR operations in the 19th and 20th centuries. Whenever I see a display, its either a "dummy" assuming the position on the bug or a recording of dots and dashes. Obviously, little tricks like the one above can only be demonstrated by a practicioner and they are becoming few and ar between. superheater@beer.com |
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| Author: | Aarne H. Frobom [ Wed Nov 06, 2002 11:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | PSGR EXTRA 1225 NORTH BY AT . . . |
> I wonder if any museum ever invited some > local telegraphy preservation folks to their > museum to illustrate (interpret) their craft > as an integral part of RR operations in the > 19th and 20th centuries. Last year when Pere Marquette 1225 operated a passenger special to Clare and Mount Pleasant, Michigan for Lake Central Rail Tours, its progress over the Tuscola and Saginaw Bay Railway (former Ann Arbor) was followed by a club of Morse telegraphers. Using radios connected to traditional telegraph keys, they OS'd the train at various points to an operator stationed at the depot at Mount Pleasant, who recorded its progress as a dispatcher would. The telegraphic installation could be seen by spectators and detraining passengers. In combination with Lake Central, the Steam Railroading Institute is studying the idea of an excursion next spring in which we'll try to make the goings-on in the cab available through some eletronic means to passengers on the train. This trip would be a test run for the work now being performed on the engine in anticipation of the trip to the Fair of the Iron Horse at Baltimore next June. Watch for more information as these ideas are developed. Aarne Frobom The Steam Railroading Institute P. O. Box 665 Owosso, MI 48867-0665 |
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| Author: | Boyd Owens [ Wed Nov 06, 2002 1:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Railroad telegraphy-a forgotten aspect *PIC* |
Mid-Continent Railway Museum occasionally has a Morse Telegrapher's club come in and set up demonstrations. They send telegraph messages to and from the main depot in North Freedom and the "station" at La Rue. It's truly impressive to watch them at work, using all the old traditional telegraph equipment. Allan  ddg14@attbi.com |
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| Author: | Charles T. McCullough [ Wed Nov 06, 2002 3:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Railroad telegraphy |
I have had the pleasure of being the docent at the railroad station in Usher's Ferry Historical Village in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, a few times when there were "real" old time telegraphers there visiting with each other. The station has a mock-up of a telegrapher's desk and there is a continuous loop of tape sending tones to a modem that is converting the signal to run the actual sounders on the desk (even have the requisite can of "Prince Albert" wedged into the sounder). The messages on the tape are actual (modified) old messages from Western Union and the Railroads (It is a dual channel system with continuous messages from each, selectable on a patch panel). The tapes were recorded by real telegraphers at a reunion several years ago. It is fascinating to watch the telegraphers talk to each other and be having a conversation about their cars or family or whatever and suddenly they will smile and comment about the message that was just played. (Some of the messages are interesting... like "John, come home, Dad fell from hayloft and broke arm, Need help finishing harvest." or something like that.) They are able to do two tasks at once... carry on one task (work with customers, etc) and still listen to the telegraph for messages that need their attention. |
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| Author: | Dick [ Wed Nov 06, 2002 6:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Railroad telegraphy |
Many thanks to all for your answers to my question. YouÂ’ve all contributed some great insight - which is so typical among all those who read and contribute to this discussion board! We do have a gentleman who does volunteer work at our museum who used to be a telegrapher, so your suggestions of having live demonstrations for the visitors is a good one that IÂ’ll pass on to him. I really like the photo of the depot that Boyd Owens included - what a fascinating contrast to see the old telegraph sounder and some very modern phones (push-button, even) in the same scene. Again, my appreciation to you all. Dick |
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| Author: | ge13031 [ Thu Nov 07, 2002 12:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Railroad telegraphy |
Wasn't only the Railroads http://www.fredsplace.org/photo/pix2/01797_s.jpg lamontdc@adelphia.net |
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| Author: | Joe Mann [ Thu Nov 07, 2002 1:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Railroad telegraphy-a forgotten aspect |
> I wonder if any museum ever invited some > local telegraphy preservation folks to their > museum to illustrate (interpret) their craft > as an integral part of RR operations in the > 19th and 20th centuries. > Whenever I see a display, its either a > "dummy" assuming the position on > the bug or a recording of dots and dashes. > Obviously, little tricks like the one above > can only be demonstrated by a practicioner > and they are becoming few and ar between. The Niles Canyon Railway has been trying to find people interested in setting up a telegraph demonstration at our Sunol depot on operating days. We have had a couple of people voice some interest but there hasn't been any plans developed yet. If anyone out there is interested in helping us out or can give us contact information of a group that would want to do this project please have them contact me. Joe Mann Niles Canyon Railway joemann@mindspring.com |
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| Author: | Ken Stavinoha [ Sat Nov 09, 2002 9:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Railroad telegraphy |
The Temple Railroad and Heritage Museum in Temple, TX has a nice setup where folks can type their message into a computer and watch as it is converted to morse code and sent along the line. The individuals get a print out of their message at the far end. They also have former telegraphers man the bugs and sounders periodically. rrm@texas.net |
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