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| A Look at Rail Preservation in Japan https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=43216 |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | A Look at Rail Preservation in Japan |
Japan's English-language TV network NHK-World's weekly railway program "Japan Railway Journal" recently did a 28-minute episode centered around rail museums and preservation: https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/onde ... o/2049054/ For other programs in the series--some of which focus on the preservation of rural lines as tourist attractions--see https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/tv/japanrailway/ |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Look at Rail Preservation in Japan |
Many, many years ago, TRAINS Magazine ran a story (perhaps a series) on railroading in Japan. At that time, there were some small American built (Baldwin perhaps?) steamers still running on one of the islands north of the more populated southern regions. I think they possibly were Moguls and they were being used in coal mining. Anyway, I always wondered if any of those engines survived into preservation. Is there some kind of a list of preserved steam in Japan? Les |
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| Author: | Shogo Takizawa [ Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Look at Rail Preservation in Japan |
Les, As a Japanese native I can tell you that Doug Bailey's steamlocomotive.info just about covers all of the locomotives preserved in Japan that I can think of. I have been posting notes on locomotives where I felt the information was outdated or inaccurate. I am aware of a list of all locomotives preserved (in Japanese) which includes a fair amount of detailed info including shed allocation history (for JNR locomotives), which I can work on translating into English if there is enough interest. Shogo |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Look at Rail Preservation in Japan |
Shogo - Checked out the locomotives located in northern Hokkaido and, although most are former JNR engines, there are a number of examples from private companies. There was one Baldwin listed; an 0-6-2T built in 1905. There is also an 1884 Porter 2-6-0 on display inside a museum! And there are at least a few 2-8-0's that are listed as being "unknown". I suppose it is possible that one of these Consolidations might be what I remember from that old TRAINS article. Les |
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| Author: | Shogo Takizawa [ Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Look at Rail Preservation in Japan |
Les, Are the articles you speak of from the late 60’s to early 70’s? If so, it rules out the 1884 Porter 2-6-0s (JGR 7100-class) , of which three are preserved around the country. These were retired by 1930 and preserved due to their historical significance (first steam locomotives to run in Hokkaido). I believe the 1905 Baldwin tank loco is former Sanmi Transport co. No.1 (listed on steamlocomotive.info as Mie Kotsu for some reason). The second and third photographs on the attached link (http://tsushima-keibendo.a.la9.jp/bibai/sanmi.html) show what the locomotive looked like in service. This locomotive along with North British built sister No. 2 worked the coal mines in Yubari until the line's closure in 1973. Not much is known about this locomotive after it was preserved. A private individual by the name of Mr. Tatsunori Yamada purchased it, and a vast number of Hokkaido mine locomotives. Most of the 2-8-0s you mentioned are among this private collection and are all Japanese built examples, which includes 4 or 5 ex-JNR 9600s, and a single 2-8-0 ordered new by Yubari Railway (No. 12, 1926 Hitachi). The collection very recently resurfaced in 2011 when Mr. Yamada donated the entire collection (including the buildings the locomotives were stored in) to the Railway Preservation Society of Japan. If I may hazard a guess, the “small American Moguls” that TRAINS magazine encountered in service with the mining industry may have been ex-JGR 8111 and 8119, later Suttsu Railway’s 8105 and 8108 (1897 Baldwin 2-6-0). This locomotive was in service in Hokkaido from 1951 to 1972. I’ve miraculously found a YouTube video of the locomotives in service, which I’ll attach the link to below. These locomotives sadly didn’t make it into preservation and were scrapped when the company went under in 1972. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j81pe_r1VYM Hope this helps, Shogo |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Look at Rail Preservation in Japan |
Shogo - Thanks! The old movie on YouTube of Suttsu Railway's 2-6-0 # 8105 may very well have been the locomotive from the old TRAINS article. I'm sorry that I can't advise just when that appeared in the magazine. Sad to hear that the 8105 (and its sister) were not preserved. The movie showed the Baldwin builders plate and its number; 15492. I couldn't quite read the date but you have said it was 1897. Thanks also for the info that the "unknown" preserved 2-8-0's were all built in Japan. In checking the listing for Hokkaido, I was extremely surprised to see that a Porter Mogul was imported (obviously more recently) from the Huckleberry Railroad in Michigan. It now apparently works at a museum on Hokkaido. Must be a reason why a local Japanese engine wasn't selected to be used. The movie of the Suttsu 8105 was also interesting in that the railway apparently operated a mixed train much as was done in the U.S.A. back in the steam era. Was nice to see 8105 running in reverse out of the station pulling a coach and followed by a couple of freight cars. Had a bit of trouble interpreting the explanation of the operation as it seemed to be in Japanese! Really appreciate all of the info Shogo. Les |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Look at Rail Preservation in Japan |
Trains: September and October 1963, "The Baldwins of Hokkaido," by William K. Viekman. |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Look at Rail Preservation in Japan |
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote: Trains: September and October 1963, "The Baldwins of Hokkaido," by William K. Viekman. Thanks! |
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| Author: | WVNorthern [ Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:33 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: A Look at Rail Preservation in Japan | ||
While still in the Navy back in 1969, I was being transferred from Guam back to the US. Our plane made a stop in Japan to pick up more passengers and as we were taking off, fortunately I was glancing out the window and I quickly made this shot. My last look of Japanese steam in regular service.
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| Author: | Shogo Takizawa [ Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Look at Rail Preservation in Japan |
Les, The 1909 Porter from the Huckleberry (No. 3) is an interesting story indeed. After it was found that the little mogul was too small to handle Huckleberry's trains and subsequently sold to a Mr. William Von Seht in Wisconsin, it eventually ended up at the Tobies Mill & Mission Creek RR in Minnesota. It, along with 2-4-0 No. 6 (1926 H.K. Porter) , was exported to Japan in 1993, when the Mission Creek operation folded. At the time, the bubble economy was in its last hurrah days. Many Japanese organizations bought seemingly pointless things from all over the world just for the hell of it, and opened up tourist destinations willy-nilly with no links whatsoever to local heritage. No. 6, which was bought by exactly the sort of short-sighted tourist destination, was not so lucky. It remains in limbo since 2006 when the theme park closed. Last I heard, it was up for sale on an internet auction site back in 2009. No. 3 was lucky, as it was purchased by a railroad museum operation that was looking specifically for a 2-6-0 in operational condition that was from roughly the same period and manufacturer as the 7100-class moguls of 1884 that pulled Hokkaido's first passenger trains. Restoration of the museum's locomotives was not an option for the administration at the time, as it had only recently (1992) been organized by the city government out of necessity when JR Hokkaido (JNR's privatized local firm) refused to continue operating the museum. It was also around this time that JR Hokkaido's attempt at collaborating with a not-for-profit organization to operate excursions with 4-6-4 No. C623 (which, incidentally, JNR repatriated from the same museum just 5 years earlier) came crashing to a halt when the nonprofit could not fund the locomotive's teardown inspection, which in Japan has to happen every 8 years. JR Hokkaido therefore at that point did not want to have anything to do with restoring steam locomotives. And since all local rolling stock at the museum are owned by JNR(JR Hokkaido) and leased to the museum indefinitely, JR Hokkaido had final say over whether or not a locomotive would be restored. It therefore made sense to purchase a locomotive for the city to do what they wanted with it, especially with all that bubble-economy surplus. I could probably write a good book or two on the sad story of C623's short-lived excursion career. But that's for another time. Excuse me for the topic drift, I at least hope it was entertaining. Shogo |
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| Author: | softwerkslex [ Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Look at Rail Preservation in Japan |
You can see the track layout of the long gone Tobies Mill railroad from satellite https://www.google.com/maps/place/46%C2%B000'18.5%22N+92%C2%B055'51.7%22W/@46.0051404,-92.9324676,708m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m14!1m7!3m6!1s0x52b2171513255627:0xe25199db1224c1de!2sHinckley,+Minnesota+55037,+USA!3b1!8m2!3d46.015!4d-92.9388889!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d46.0051383!4d-92.9310249 |
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| Author: | psa188 [ Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Look at Rail Preservation in Japan |
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote: Trains: September and October 1963, "The Baldwins of Hokkaido," by William K. Viekman. While we are on the subject on Trains Magazine's coverage of Japan in the early 1960s, let me remind you that editor Morgan stopped there on his "Trains goes Around the World" tour. The Japanese portion of the tour was written up in, I believe, the October 1961 issue. Part of the fun was Morgan's account of a cab ride in Hokkaido. |
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| Author: | softwerkslex [ Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Look at Rail Preservation in Japan |
psa188 wrote: Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote: Trains: September and October 1963, "The Baldwins of Hokkaido," by William K. Viekman. While we are on the subject on Trains Magazine's coverage of Japan in the early 1960s, let me remind you that editor Morgan stopped there on his "Trains goes Around the World" tour. The Japanese portion of the tour was written up in, I believe, the October 1961 issue. Part of the fun was Morgan's account of a cab ride in Hokkaido. pp. 28-35, October 1961 |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Look at Rail Preservation in Japan |
Shogo Takizawa wrote: Les, The 1909 Porter from the Huckleberry (No. 3) is an interesting story indeed. No. 3 was lucky, as it was purchased by a railroad museum operation that was looking specifically for a 2-6-0 in operational condition that was from roughly the same period and manufacturer as the 7100-class moguls of 1884 that pulled Hokkaido's first passenger trains. Shogo Shogo - Thanks for the interesting explanation of the survival of "Huckleberry number 3" and related equipment. I tried to find the name of the railroad museum again to see what I could find out about that operation on the internet, but was unable to locate it. Can you advise? Les |
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| Author: | Shogo Takizawa [ Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Look at Rail Preservation in Japan |
Les, The museum in question is now known simply as the Otaru Museum. It used to be called the Otaru Railway Memorial Museum until the 1993 management change. Coincidentally, I plan on visiting them later in the month. I am not sure if No.3 will be operating on the day I plan to visit, but I'll try to photograph it and the other Porter mogul (No.6 "SHIZUKA", not related to the 2-4-0 mentioned in my previous post... this is very confusing) for sharing here. Shogo |
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