This is the Dulux formula used by the Central, Cleveland, and Northeast regions of the Pullman Co for SFC (Special Fleet Color) Green (also used by the FWD Corp), one gallon (8/16/65 -- for one quart, divide by 4 and round down):

VD-5450 - dryer additive 155
3 - iron blue 427
40 - yellow 1373
36-H - red orange 2402
2 - Black (high strength) 3871

Color number is 5502-H. As I recall, these are accumulative settings. If you find a jobber who can mix this, and the color turns out incorrectly, try again using non-accumulative settings. The first time I bought this, it ran around $12 a gallon. Today, expect to pay around $60 or more, if you can find it.

This was also used by GN for the orange and green scheme on the Empire Builder (082 was the orange color). Unfortunately this doesn't cross refrence into Centari nor Imron (probably because 40 yellow is yellow chromate). (5505-H is PRR tuscan red which does cross to Imron and Centari).

You can still buy paints using all the nasty pigments in 1 pt cans for sign painters or the pigments themselves in tubes for artwork.

It was PRR Brunswick Green which was made from lampblack and yellow chromate, not Pullman Green as posted a while back.

A week ago at the Association of Railway Museums meeting in Dallas we had a field trip to the Age of Steam Railroad Museum. While there the Museum Director, Bob LaPrelle, gave an unscheduled talk to about six of us about the museum's current work to repaint several of its passenger and Pullman cars.

It sounds like they have done some significant work at determining the exact colors. The research included contacts with the DuPont factory, etc. Their research indicates that Pullman used slightly different shades of green pre- and post-WWII. They have a modern formula match to at least one of these Pullman Greens.

Brian Norden

Age of Steam Railroad Museum
bnorden49@earthlink.net

> This is the Dulux formula used by the
> Central, Cleveland, and Northeast regions of
> the Pullman Co for SFC (Special Fleet Color)
> Green (also used by the FWD Corp), one
> gallon (8/16/65 -- for one quart, divide by
> 4 and round down):

> VD-5450 - dryer additive 155
> 3 - iron blue 427
> 40 - yellow 1373
> 36-H - red orange 2402
> 2 - Black (high strength) 3871

> Color number is 5502-H. As I recall, these
> are accumulative settings. If you find a
> jobber who can mix this, and the color turns
> out incorrectly, try again using
> non-accumulative settings. The first time I
> bought this, it ran around $12 a gallon.
> Today, expect to pay around $60 or more, if
> you can find it.

Starting with a color drift control panel for Pullman Green as used by Atlantic Coast Line in March 1954, Thronateeska Heritage Center was able to get an industrial paint mix that matched the panel very well. White Mothane was the base. The following codes were provided by the company that mixed the paint (BLP Mobile Paints, Dothan, AL):

B-3
C-30
O-8y
F-12
Kx-28
I-5y18

Does anyone have any experience with mothane? I am wondering about durability. I have noted some apparent shrinkage of the paint during the Summer where yellow was first applied for masking of the lettering (not a method we will be using again).

Stephen

syfrettinc@bellsouth.net

The color match we found to the Dover Straits window sash at the Illinois Railway Museum was determined empirically to be:
Coronado Industrial Urethane Enamel-
M31-36 Clear Base
LB-5Y
YO-5Y
BV-24
As I am reading this off the lid of the gallon can that Bob Kutella of the Freight Car Dept had the paint store mix up for me, I hope I got it right. Sherwin Williams had a paint archive for the paints mixed up for Pullman, which had the company version of the early and late Pullman Green. Of course, Pullman also had Green mixed to the specifications of individual railroads so getting a match is a combination of the inevitable weathering and lucky break to get an interior unweathered portion! I am willing to supply a color sample on an index card to compare with any one else, just to see how we differ!
Ted Anderson, B&M fan and volunteer in the IRM Pullman Library


tedander@core.com

Brian,

I have to wonder how many times Pullman Green has been researched by how many different railroad groups? As a painter for our museum and a color scientist by profession, I know I have spent a lot of time trying to get colors right and have been lucky to get a lot of help throughout the industry and from my paint dealers.

With that said, I have to wonder if it is not time for some group to undertake a railroad paint formula website/database for railroad preservationists? Original manufacturers/formulas, crossed over modern formulas, paint recommendations and etc. Get all this great work that everyone has done in one spot for everyone to share and use. I have seen some effort done toward something like this in several places in the railroad model world and even in the automobile preservation world, but there really needs to be something for the big railroad stuff since we tend to need paints in gallons and paints with significantly different capabilities than most railroad modelers.

Thoughts? Is there something that I have never seen? I would be willing to help.

Until later,
Chris


Rochester & Genesee Valley RR Museum

crhauf@frontiernet.net

> Brian,

> I have to wonder how many times Pullman
> Green has been researched by how many
> different railroad groups? As a painter for
> our museum and a color scientist by
> profession, I know I have spent a lot of
> time trying to get colors right and have
> been lucky to get a lot of help throughout
> the industry and from my paint dealers.

> With that said, I have to wonder if it is
> not time for some group to undertake a
> railroad paint formula website/database for
> railroad preservationists? Original
> manufacturers/formulas, crossed over modern
> formulas, paint recommendations and etc. Get
> all this great work that everyone has done
> in one spot for everyone to share and use. I
> have seen some effort done toward something
> like this in several places in the railroad
> model world and even in the automobile
> preservation world, but there really needs
> to be something for the big railroad stuff
> since we tend to need paints in gallons and
> paints with significantly different
> capabilities than most railroad modelers.

> Thoughts? Is there something that I have
> never seen? I would be willing to help.

> Until later,
> Chris

Chris: What a great caboose! (Our museum has EL caboose #C345.) But....I checked your website and you don't seem to have a list of equipment. What type of hopper car is Erie C254 coupled to?
Thanks!

Les Beckman (Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum/North Judson, Indiana)


midlandblb@cs.com

Les,

Thanks for the compliment. We restored Erie C254 over 8 years ago. It was painted with the ICI Autocolor 2K system. Right now, it needs a little cleaning, polishing and waxing, but the paint has really held up great. The pic in my previous post was taken this past Spring. We rolled the dice on the color on the car when we painted it. The paint was called "American LaFrance Red" which, of course, was a fire engine red formula.

As for the hopper, it is a PRR H-21g, PRR747603. Pic below. I actually had a roster of equipment on our old website and need to get it moved over to our new site. Websites make great winter projects!

Until later,
Chris

> Chris: What a great caboose! (Our museum has
> EL caboose #C345.) But....I checked your
> website and you don't seem to have a list of
> equipment. What type of hopper car is Erie
> C254 coupled to?
> Thanks!

> Les Beckman (Hoosier Valley Railroad
> Museum/North Judson, Indiana)


Rochester & Genesee Valley RR Museum

crhauf@frontiernet.net

> Les,

> Thanks for the compliment. We restored Erie
> C254 over 8 years ago. It was painted with
> the ICI Autocolor 2K system. Right now, it
> needs a little cleaning, polishing and
> waxing, but the paint has really held up
> great. The pic in my previous post was taken
> this past Spring. We rolled the dice on the
> color on the car when we painted it. The
> paint was called "American LaFrance
> Red" which, of course, was a fire
> engine red formula.

> As for the hopper, it is a PRR H-21g,
> PRR747603. Pic below. I actually had a
> roster of equipment on our old website and
> need to get it moved over to our new site.
> Websites make great winter projects!

> Until later,
> Chris

Chris: Thanks for the additional info and especially the photo of 3 bay hopper PRR #747603. We have a somewhat similar hopper car on our museums roster; N&W #546864 (former #40639). I think that freight equipment quite often gets overlooked in the rail preservation movement. I look forward to your adding the equipment roster to your website.

Les Beckman (HVRM)

midlandblb@cs.com