In the words of a Navy based commander; "Don't ask me for permission which I can't give." Translation - go ahead.
Picture speaks 1000 words.
Pacific Southwest Railway Museum
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| Painting ex-Army Lcomotives https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4349 |
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| Author: | J. Hoover [ Fri Nov 08, 2002 7:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Painting ex-Army Lcomotives |
In order to settle an disagreement, could someone please point me to any online document's that says US Army locomotives purchased through DRMO cannot be painted back into their Army paint schemes by their new owners? |
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| Author: | Alan Walker [ Sun Nov 10, 2002 9:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Painting ex-Army Lcomotives |
I do not know of any documentation to that effect. However, Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum's operating RSD-1s were used in passenger excursion services in full military markings for a few years, complete with Transportation Corps insignia. awalker2002@comcast.net |
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| Author: | Ron Goldfeder [ Sun Nov 10, 2002 2:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Painting ex-Army Lcomotives |
When I was in the Air Force I did a lot of business with the disposal folks and know that they are required to "demilitarize" items like locomotives by removing (usually painting over) their markings. However I am not aware of anything to prevent the new owner from restoring them, as we have done with the ex-Army locomotives at the Museum of Transportation. We have an FM H-1244, EMD SW-8, and ALCO/GE MRS-1, as well as an Orton loco crane. If anyone knows of a rule we are not aware of please speak up. We also have an experimental Army gas-turbine-mechanical loco we obtained from other channels and it is also in its full Army markings. Museum of Transportation ron_goldfeder@stlouisco.com |
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| Author: | K.R. Bell [ Sun Nov 10, 2002 7:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Painting ex-Army Lcomotives |
Although I was not yet employed by our museum, in 1992 our institution acquired a Baldwin S-12 diesel from the U.S. Navy at Earle, NJ. I recall hearing by veteran staff and volunteers that we were not permitted to letter this unit with any U.S. Navy markings due to some unknown federal rule regarding disposition of military property. Thus the museum curator at that time made the wise decision to paint and letter the unit to represent a generic Baldwin Locomotive Works switcher. So evidently, at least ten years ago, something to that effect was "on the books." > When I was in the Air Force I did a lot of > business with the disposal folks and know > that they are required to > "demilitarize" items like > locomotives by removing (usually painting > over) their markings. However I am not aware > of anything to prevent the new owner from > restoring them, as we have done with the > ex-Army locomotives at the Museum of > Transportation. We have an FM H-1244, EMD > SW-8, and ALCO/GE MRS-1, as well as an Orton > loco crane. If anyone knows of a rule we are > not aware of please speak up. We also have > an experimental Army gas-turbine-mechanical > loco we obtained from other channels and it > is also in its full Army markings. http://rrmuseumpa.org |
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| Author: | Alan Walker [ Mon Nov 11, 2002 1:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Painting ex-Army Lcomotives |
Our locomotives were obtained in 1977 from the United States Air Force at Eglin AFB. However, they still had full Army markings with the Transportation Corps insignia. We have no written information on file that I know of that instructed that the locomotives be de-milled. According to records, the locomotives were officially transferred from the Army to the Air Force, but the Air Force never repainted them. On the other hand, we do have a locomotive-crane from Wright-Patterson AFB which has been de-milled, so perhaps the reason that the units from Eglin were not required to be de-milled might be that they bore markings from another service branch and fell through the cracks, or were of no interest to the Transportation Corps at that time.It should be noted that the Transportation Corps has their own public museum and operated public excursions on the base railroad during base open houses. awalker2002@comcast.net |
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| Author: | Jim Lundquist [ Mon Nov 11, 2002 9:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | USA #1820 *PIC* |
In the words of a Navy based commander; "Don't ask me for permission which I can't give." Translation - go ahead. Picture speaks 1000 words. Pacific Southwest Railway Museum
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| Author: | Ron Goldfeder [ Tue Nov 12, 2002 3:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | "Demilitarization" |
One thing you quickly learn in dealing with the surplus property disposal system is that consistency is rare. Some places strictly follow rules, some seem not to know these exist. And over time things will change at the same place as management changes happen. As for locomotive markings, the services stopped managing them for themselves years ago and a joint management system was set up, operating out of Hill Air Force Base in Utah. I was at Whiteman AFB in MO when I retired and the loco maintenance was done by DOD civilians who showed up with a truck-mounted shop periodically. Locos were moved between services freely, with some taking the time to repaint and mark them and some not doing it. Nothing can be generalized from all this except that it is a large system with a lot of operating inconsistencies no mater what the written rules say is required. Museum of Transportation rdgoldfede@aol.com |
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| Author: | Bill Hayes [ Fri Nov 15, 2002 9:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "Demilitarization" |
This is my first post as I recently came across this forum. Demilitarization is tied to an actual item in the military supply system, and is controlled by the item's "item manager". Surplus is currently handeled for the entire DOD by DRMS, a component of the Defense Logistics Agency located in Battle Creek MI. They have a website that advertises all assets that are available for reuse within DOD or the govt, and also items that are for public sale. A search today revealed one locomotive available at Hill AFB in Utah, a D-E Switcher of 450 HP. The technical data was generic and did not reveal anything specific about that locomotive, but interestingly had a whyte wheel arrangement of 0-4-4-0 listed. The DeMIL code was A, which means demilitarization is not required. Where DOD really gets concerned with DeMIL is for classified equipment, avionics, weapons system, ordnance, etc. Industrial equipment usually isn't too big of a concern, unless it's used for a business and can be seen publicly...DOD does not want someone driving an Army truck around in full Army markings unless it's a museum piece or historical. The DLA website is www.drms.dla.mil. They do offer items to non-profits or state agencies prior to offer to the general publis so this may be a way to get items donated. A better website is www.govliquidation.com...they list upcoming auctions and bids can be placed over the internet. Great deals on vehicles, tools, mostly at 5 cents on the dollar. There are photos and it's got everything from lathes, milling machines, etc to truck cranes, computers, etc. A lot of it is typical military...very good condition, well-maintained, but excessed due to a base closure or something. I hope this information is helpful. Bill Hayes http://www.govliquidation.com hayesw@bataan.navy.mil |
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