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| Steam trains could die out because of government crackdown.. https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=43630 |
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| Author: | Kelly Anderson [ Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Steam trains could die out because of government crackdown.. |
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| Author: | RCD [ Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Steam trains could die out because of government crackdo |
I guess you will have to run F40PHs at Strausberg then. It's not like steam locomotives can burn other things right? |
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| Author: | Crescent-Zephyr [ Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Steam trains could die out because of government crackdo |
Maggie Thatcher strikes again!!! |
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| Author: | WVNorthern [ Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Steam trains could die out because of government crackdo |
I guess they could take the route of the Big Boy & convert to oil firing. |
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| Author: | Bowmore [ Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Steam trains could die out because of government crackdo |
The part of the post that got my attention was 12m tonnes coal pa - railways use just 26,000 tonnes pa". There is no way the price will not rise. The railroads use 0.2 percent of the coal produced. I even wonder if any mines would stay open. They may have to convert to oil if this goes through. |
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| Author: | John T [ Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Steam trains could die out because of government crackdo |
Besides conversion to oil there is compressed sawdust logs (presto logs) aka bio-mass. Our local museum plans to fire their former Northern Pacific 0-6-0 on them. The ones they are looking at have the same fuel value as soft coal. In part the decision was based on the unavailability of steam coal in less than train load lots in the western US. |
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| Author: | rjenkins [ Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Steam trains could die out because of government crackdo |
John T wrote: Besides conversion to oil there is compressed sawdust logs (presto logs) aka bio-mass. Our local museum plans to fire their former Northern Pacific 0-6-0 on them. The ones they are looking at have the same fuel value as soft coal. In part the decision was based on the unavailability of steam coal in less than train load lots in the western US. I have to assume that's Northern Pacific 924 (of the four surviving NP 0-6-0s, she's the only one I'm aware of that is currently being restored to operate), but I thought she was being converted to oil? |
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| Author: | John T [ Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Steam trains could die out because of government crackdo |
Nope, the 924 will burn presto logs. |
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| Author: | Kelly Anderson [ Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Steam trains could die out because of government crackdo |
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| Author: | 70000 [ Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Steam trains could die out because of government crackdo |
There's 8 pages worth on this subject on the UK National Preservation Forum if you fancy a bit of a read..... https://www.national-preservation.com/t ... e.1241955/ It does contain some links to official reports on the subject (as well as a lot of standard Forum wibble...) Preserved Railways (+ other heritage coal burning operators, eg Traction Engine owners) are going to be indirectly hit with the forced elimination of coal use in other sectors. With a declining market, the few remaining UK coal mining operations are expected to shut down as a result, meaning that any coal supplies will end up being imported. The coal is still there underground in various parts of the UK, it's just uneconomic to mine the stuff in the smallish quantities that will be required for the "heritage" sector. There is no outright ban on the use of coal proposed (as yet...), but several preserved lines could be classed as somewhat borderline financial operations, so a hike in the cost of coal supplies could push some "over the edge". The Heritage Railway Association are currently active in finding a solution to it all, if possible, and it is something that is receiving a much higher Public profile in the past couple of months (ie the Telegraph article) Coal is hardly used here for electricity generation now and yesterday we had a serious power grid outage accross the southern UK - hopefully not the shape of things to come..... (yesterdays culprits being a gas-fired power station and a wind farm, from what I've seen so far this morning) |
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| Author: | PaulWWoodring [ Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Steam trains could die out because of government crackdo |
I've been saying this for over five years now, that any group planning a major steam locomotive restoration should seriously consider doing it with a liquid bio-fuel firing system. Whatever our small group might think about coal, that feeling is not shared by the public at-large. The Grand Canyon does it successfully (granted, they are owned by a corporation that provides food service to our western national parks with access to large quantities of used fry oil), and that could show the way for other operations to go. |
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| Author: | Kelly Anderson [ Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Steam trains could die out because of government crackdo |
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| Author: | SD70dude [ Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Steam trains could die out because of government crackdo |
Just for the heck of it, is it possible to buy charcoal BBQ briquettes in bulk and if so, how does their cost compare to various forms of fuel oil? |
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| Author: | xboxtravis7992 [ Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Steam trains could die out because of government crackdo |
The one thing currently in the US that might help heritage railroads hold out a bit longer with coal, is the prevalence of coal heating that exists in some homes. Currently its estimated in the US that there are 130,000 homes still using coal for heat (https://www.npr.org/2019/03/03/69932556 ... still-king). I know there are government type rebates to upgrade homes to more modern heating, but the small hold out might just be enough to keep a few mines still running on a smaller scale. It might be just enough to keep the heritage railroad industry running with coal for just a bit longer. The next is a developing tech, using coal as a carbon source for composite materials. Again, the amount of coal mines needed to support a carbon fiber industry would be minuscule compared to the modern day amount operating, but again it might just be enough to still be producing the coal the heritage industry needs (http://compositesmanufacturingmagazine. ... bon-fiber/). But is it worth it? Personally I think compared to the large coal generating plants still in operation, and the millions of gas burning cars on the road right now; the heritage rail industry's impact on pollution is incredibly minuscule. But, I think as environmental issues take more of the center stage the need to convert to natural gas/fuel oil/bio fuel will become more prevalent. NIMBYs might forget the coal power plant 200 miles away, but they might not be so forgiving to the steam engine running at the railroad across the street. As already mentioned, Grand Canyon is running fun on bio fuels. Disney runs the two busiest narrow gauge railroads in the nation off bio fuels too. So its obvious the tech is out there and proven in use. Not to mention the fire risks of coal are going to become an increasing issue in the western states. I think everyone here is familiar with the circus going on with the Durango lawsuit, and if switching to oil or biofuel is a preventative measure against such lawsuits in the future I think its a wise investment for wildfire country. Its important to note that many western roads (SP, WP, LASL) all had long oil fired divisions; which while mostly due to economic reasons, also had the happy side benefit of preventing line side fire. So the precedence for using something other than coal goes back all the way to the steam age. TL:DR I wouldn't count coal out yet as an option for heritage railroads, but its going to become increasingly more difficult to procure and use as the future marches on. |
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| Author: | QJdriver [ Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Steam trains could die out because of government crackdo |
I know everybody must be tired of hearing me harp on this, BUT, all the photos of steam engines puking artificially thick, nauseating, FILTHY BLACK SMOKE are not helping our cause. For some reason the general public, and especially the enviro-dogooders, have gotten the idea that steam locomotives cause excess pollution…. |
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