Railway Preservation News :: View topic - Questions about railcar restorations

Most departments at IRM abhor sandblasting; it's messy, and the sand gets into EVERYTHING; journal bearings, motor gear pans, switch gear. Yes, they have sandblasted some big projects, but normally hire a sandblast contractor to come on site to do it, and spend the time to make sure everything mechanical is well tarped. The other problem is a lot of the equipment is composite construction (wood and steel) and if someone doesn't realize some of the exposed surface is wood, they can easily turn it into driftwood.

Heat removal works for wood cars, but care must be taken to prevent setting fires in wall cavities, etc.

Chemical strippers are usable, but tend to be expensive in the volume required.

IRM used to be big on pneumatic needle scalers (Google it) for small work and continuing one man projects. They remove both heavy paint and rust scale, and tend to beat any loose rust out of joints, plate laps, etc. The will let you know right away if you'be wandered onto a wood component before too much damage can be done. While these remove the bulk of the rust and old coatings, the surface still needs sanding or a wire wheel before paint.

Author:	pat m [ Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:29 am ]
Post subject:	Questions about railcar restorations
I have recently got involved with a restoration of a railcar with IRM.. They are really nice people and I don't want to bother them with all of the questions so I'll ask you folks. What is the preferred procedures for preparation and painting of a piece of equipment. Is it a simple wire wheels grinders, followed by a rustoleum type of paint or is it sandblasting acid etching and the more expensive urethane topcoats. I've been involved in automotive restoration for 40 years with the emphasis on preservation. Some of the procedures I find that are being done today make me cringe so basically I'm curious what you guys do when you restore your equipment. Thanks

Author:	Mr. Ed [ Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Questions about railcar restorations
I too am a car guy but have been a firm believer in Rust-O-Leum products. I used them on the chassis of a '46 Chevy I was restoring. I also used them on an N6b I did. Their heavy rusty metal primer is second to none. But the folks at IRM may have a preference as to whose products they use. Later! Mr. Ed

Author:	RSwinnerton [ Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Questions about railcar restorations
All kinda depends on project goals and museum policy. I've done "bare metal" restoration work with the fancy paint and I've done "wire wheel the big bits off and roller it" work too. All just depends on your goal for the work. Russ

Author:	Trolleyguy [ Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:57 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Questions about railcar restorations
I'm not a big fan of any process that involves surface degradation like wire wheels and sandblasting. I've found that chemical removers and/or dry ice blasting leaves the substrate in better shape without the attendant sand and old paint detritus to find its way into journal boxes and electrical equipment. JMHO.

Author:	pat m [ Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Questions about railcar restorations
Thank you for the feedback. It looks like the automotive hobby where it's all over the map.

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Questions about railcar restorations https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=43758	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Bob Milhaupt steamy [ Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Questions about railcar restorations
pat m wrote: I have recently got involved with a restoration of a railcar with IRM.. They are really nice people and I don't want to bother them with all of the questions so I'll ask you folks. I(llinois?) Railway Museum has a number of different departments with a wide variety of different painting facilities and equipment and even a wide variety of experience with different products and procedures. What may be acceptable for one department and its type of equipment may not be acceptable in another department for its type of equipment. Presumably, environmental concerns could crop up which make some products and methods incompatible with the various different facilities and/or equipment. I strongly suggest that you speak with the department head and his/her "paint-prep and painting expert" when you consider how you want to proceed on the restoration. You can find out what has worked for them in the past. You can argue for specific products or methods or equipment. Perhaps you can expand the list of acceptable practices beyond what than the department has used in the past! So far as I know, you have to use a set of procedures and products that the department allows - unless you own the car or otherwise have carte-blanche to decide how the restoration goes forward. Remember, asking questions, giving considered feedback, making suggestions and taking criticism generally are good ways to build a good reputation in an organization. In my experience, this is a very valuable thing in an organization as large as I(llinois)RM can be (and as clique-ish, too!). One of the worst things is a reputation as a "loose-cannon". That's something which will likely occur if you go forward with a paint job without consultation with the department head and those around him who feel that their "whiskers" are longer than yours. Regards, Bob Milhaupt

Author:	Tom F [ Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Questions about railcar restorations
It really matters less about what method you use to remove rust and more about how the finished product looks after the removal of the rust. Of course a big part of what rust removal method you use is how much metal you have to work with. You should of course always remove rust until you get to good metal. Bead blasting in a cabinet for small parts is one of the best methods as it will remove rust to bare metal. It is also quick, dust is contained, and the amount of metal removed can be varied pretty precisely. I usually hit the parts with a wire wheel after blasting to smooth out the metal to a shiny gloss. When I was overhauling passenger cars and locomotives we always sandblasted them. This was the cheapest, quickest, and best way to get all the paint and rust off. However after sandblasting the entire locomotive or passenger car would have to be thoroughly sanding to smooth out the metal. Sand blasting would also occasionally blast holes through the metal where rust was bad. That metal would have to be cut out and replaced with a flush patch. You also have to move pretty quickly with sand blasting as the bare metal will rust quickly especially if it gets wet. If you don't have much money paint stripper works well. Brush it on, wait a hour, and scrape it off with a paint scrapper. Then just sand it until the metal looks good. Passenger car restorations in my experience, are the hardest to restore in the rail road industry. Much worse than locomotives. I remember walking in one car and it was rusted out so bad my foot went through the floorboard every time I stepped. You will be replacing a lot of metal. Many of those cars have concrete floors which must be removed which is difficult as you do not want to damage the metal below them.

Author:	pat m [ Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Questions about railcar restorations
Thank you for the feedback. I have been speaking with personnel at IRM for the last 5 years. Last month we painted part of the roof of a railroad car and the department heads, the few that were there were quite impressed. I thought this is a group of volunteer train enthusiasts with a couple of cars to fix up. Well I guess you learn something every day. My experience is in the area of rust and corrosion for the past 40 years. I don't know a hell of a lot about trains although I grew up with the Erie Lackawanna turntable in my backyard. Hopefully we can learn from each other

Author:	Dennis Storzek [ Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Questions about railcar restorations
Most departments at IRM abhor sandblasting; it's messy, and the sand gets into EVERYTHING; journal bearings, motor gear pans, switch gear. Yes, they have sandblasted some big projects, but normally hire a sandblast contractor to come on site to do it, and spend the time to make sure everything mechanical is well tarped. The other problem is a lot of the equipment is composite construction (wood and steel) and if someone doesn't realize some of the exposed surface is wood, they can easily turn it into driftwood. Heat removal works for wood cars, but care must be taken to prevent setting fires in wall cavities, etc. Chemical strippers are usable, but tend to be expensive in the volume required. IRM used to be big on pneumatic needle scalers (Google it) for small work and continuing one man projects. They remove both heavy paint and rust scale, and tend to beat any loose rust out of joints, plate laps, etc. The will let you know right away if you'be wandered onto a wood component before too much damage can be done. While these remove the bulk of the rust and old coatings, the surface still needs sanding or a wire wheel before paint.

Author:	pat m [ Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Questions about railcar restorations
Dennis Storzek wrote: Most departments at IRM abhor sandblasting; it's messy, and the sand gets into EVERYTHING; journal bearings, motor gear pans, switch gear. Yes, they have sandblasted some big projects, but normally hire a sandblast contractor to come on site to do it, and spend the time to make sure everything mechanical is well tarped. The other problem is a lot of the equipment is composite construction (wood and steel) and if someone doesn't realize some of the exposed surface is wood, they can easily turn it into driftwood. Heat removal works for wood cars, but care must be taken to prevent setting fires in wall cavities, etc. Chemical strippers are usable, but tend to be expensive in the volume required. IRM used to be big on pneumatic needle scalers (Google it) for small work and continuing one man projects. They remove both heavy paint and rust scale, and tend to beat any loose rust out of joints, plate laps, etc. The will let you know right away if you'be wandered onto a wood component before too much damage can be done. While these remove the bulk of the rust and old coatings, the surface still needs sanding or a wire wheel before paint. Thank you Dennis sandblasting definitely has its disadvantages in 1988 I went on a quest to find the most powerful primer in the world. After spending the winter on the telephone all indications pointed back to Mo Bay's aluminum pigmented moisture cured primer for marginally prepared surfaces.This was due to lead paint hazards on bridges This primer would run 8000 hours of salt spray with little or no deterioration. I managed to find it and I've been using it and selling it for the past 32 years. Restoration work is tedious and sometimes we do more damage than we do good. There are times when I wish I'd stayed out of the garage

Author:	Rick Rowlands [ Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Questions about railcar restorations
Please tell us more about this moisture cured primer including where to procure some.

Author:	Al Stangenberger [ Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Questions about railcar restorations
Another possible treatment for metal parts (if they can be removed from the equipment) is powder coating. Western Railway Museum has used a local powder coating shop to abrasive blast and powder coat several pilots for interurban cars, and also some air reservoirs. The abrasive blasting of the new pilots removed all the mill scale, and (of course) all of the rust from a pair of used pilots which had been stored outside for many years. Of course paying a shop to do the work is expensive, but it frees up volunteers to do other work on the project.

Author:	k5ahudson [ Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Questions about railcar restorations
Mr. Ed wrote: I too am a car guy but have been a firm believer in Rust-O-Leum products. I assume you mean industrial grade Rust-O-Leum? The hardware store, homeowner products just don't cut it long term.

Author:	jayrod [ Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Questions about railcar restorations
Rick Rowlands wrote: Please tell us more about this moisture cured primer including where to procure some. I think this is it: https://nomorerust.com/store/rust-stop-paints/8-mastercoat-pemanent-rust-sealer.html Haven't tried it yet but it's on my radar.

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Author:	pat m [ Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:30 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Questions about railcar restorations
Hello Tom F. I have a rust remover metal prep that is very aggressive. It'll dissolve heavy surface rust in less than an hour I love this stuff. After you blast wire wheel take a paper towel and wipe the master coat on the part it'll leave a zinc phosphate film and you can store parts indoors for months. It does not contain sulfuric acid. Tom give me a call and I'll send you a sample to play with. . I would love to play a part in preserving railroad history. Sometimes while I watch a car auction I wonder if any of those cars have my paint on them. I would love to see a train and wondered the same thing. I've sold over 200,000 cans in the last 32 years every weekend the car shows for the past 25 years and have never had a cans thrown at me How bad can it be?