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| The Tender on N&W 611 question https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=43781 |
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| Author: | Pat Fahey [ Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | The Tender on N&W 611 question |
Hi All The question I have is this, Why is the current Tender behind N&W 611 numbered 220165 instead of 611. Also, is she still carrying her original tender from the wreck she was in at Tug Fork in 1956? And Again Thanks Ahead of time, Pat. Attachment:
File comment: Photo By Pat Fahey Strasburg RR
DSCN0001.jpg #1.jpg [ 57.43 KiB | Viewed 12354 times ] |
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| Author: | J3a-614 [ Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Tender on N&W 611 question |
Hello, Pat, In common with a number of other roads, most notably the Pennsylvania, steam locomotive tenders carried their own number series. This was to allow a tender to be tracked as it quite possibly could be coupled with different locomotives in its lifetime; in fact, tender swaps were VERY common. Most roads would apply the locomotive number to the tender in addition to the tender's own number, but apparently PRR and N&W--which followed a lot of PRR practices--did not. It's my understanding that the tenders of the Pennsy engines in the museum across the street are similarly individually numbered. They carry a plate on them with the tender number, some information with the class and some specifications for the tender, and a space to add the number of the locomotive the tender is assigned to. Does 611 have its tender from the time it went in the river? We don't know, unless someone can come up with the maintenance logs that include tender assignments. I would be inclined to doubt it, considering how often tenders got swapped around. A hint of how often tenders could be changed around is suggested in this thread. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=41972 |
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| Author: | trirrfan9101 [ Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Tender on N&W 611 question |
I will have to refer back to Trains Magazine's issue covering 611's return to steam, but IIRC, they said that the tender she has now was the one she had in the wreck. Something was said that a seam on the tender could be spotted before this restoration. The seam was a result of the wreck but was fixed during restoration. It wouldn't surprise me if this tender has been 611's since the beginning as I never really heard as much about the J's swapping tenders as some of the more numerous classes would. |
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| Author: | p51 [ Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Tender on N&W 611 question |
Funny, I too saw the recent videos and photos of 611 moving around Strasburg and saw those numbers and only then wondered. I'd never seen the back of her tender before this week, in spite of seeing her in person in the museum in Roanoke before her 1980s restoration and on the road with the NS steam program. I'd never seen the back of her tender until recently, though... trirrfan9101 wrote: Something was said that a seam on the tender could be spotted before this restoration. The seam was a result of the wreck but was fixed during restoration. I thought that was some kind of indent on the boiler itself from that wreck and not on the tender?
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| Author: | trirrfan9101 [ Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Tender on N&W 611 question |
Now, an indention on the boiler was something I do remember the article specifically stated. I can't remember if that indention is still there as it would be covered by the streamlined casing, but I really do think they said there was something from the wreck on the tender prior to her 2015 restoration. I have the magazine at home as well as the Fire Up 611 magazines that were published around the same time, so I'll look them up and get back to you on that. |
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| Author: | EJ Berry [ Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Tender on N&W 611 question |
Most roads numbered their tenders separately from the engines. Swaps occurred frequently, larger tenders for longer range, smaller tenders for a specific turntable. At the RRMPA (across the street from 611) you can see a plate on the PRR tenders giving the tender number and the number of the assigned locomotive. RDG 2124 has tender 19045: 46th tender with 19,000 gal capacity (21 K-1 2-10-2's got 19,000 gal tenders of a slightly different design before the T-1's were built) Given RDG's numbering policy: were the J's tenders originally 22,000 gallons; hence the number series? Phil Mulligan |
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| Author: | BM765 [ Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Tender on N&W 611 question |
In the 80’s & 90’s there was definitely a noticeable crease in the tender supposedly from the Tug Fork wreck. Also one corner of the sand dome was smashed in. The dome of course is hidden by the streamlining but If you look down from above you can see that one lid of the sand dome is lower than the others. Not sure if these were repaired during the latest restoration or not. My understanding is that J tenders were rarely swapped simply because there was almost never two J’s undergoing heavy service at the same time. I’m not sure but I wouldn’t be surprised if 611 hasn’t had the same tender since 1950. |
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| Author: | J3a-614 [ Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Tender on N&W 611 question |
BM765 wrote: In the 80’s & 90’s there was definitely a noticeable crease in the tender supposedly from the Tug Fork wreck. Also one corner of the sand dome was smashed in. The dome of course is hidden by the streamlining but If you look down from above you can see that one lid of the sand dome is lower than the others. Not sure if these were repaired during the latest restoration or not. I looked for photos of 611 that would show those details, but didn't have any luck. Something else I've seen but couldn't find on the internet are photos of 611 in service after the wreck. What's notable about those is that the flat top of the skyline casing was left off, and you could see the skyline supports, the top of the boiler and everything else there if you were high enough. This wasn't visible from the ground at all, thanks to the curve along the edges of the skyline casing. One thing I did find was a photo of the wreck I'd never seen before, appearing in a story about a couple who are local writers in the Huntington, W.Va. area. This is from an article on a book about wrecks on the N&W.  The story where I found the image, from the Huntington Herald-Dispatch. https://www.herald-dispatch.com/news/re ... 5fb1c.html |
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| Author: | nasaracer32 [ Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Tender on N&W 611 question |
BM765 wrote: In the 80’s & 90’s there was definitely a noticeable crease in the tender supposedly from the Tug Fork wreck. Also one corner of the sand dome was smashed in. The dome of course is hidden by the streamlining but If you look down from above you can see that one lid of the sand dome is lower than the others. Not sure if these were repaired during the latest restoration or not. My understanding is that J tenders were rarely swapped simply because there was almost never two J’s undergoing heavy service at the same time. I’m not sure but I wouldn’t be surprised if 611 hasn’t had the same tender since 1950. Correct, this is the same tender that was in the '56 wreck. There was a crease on the fireman's side from the wreck that was prominent during the 80's and 09's. It was worked on and cleaned up during the 2014 rebuild. The dent in the sand dome is still there and under the streamlining. As you mention, you can see an indication of it as the rear cover of the sand dome on the fireman's side sits a little lower than the others. The center fill hatch on the sand dome was added in Birmingham and make filling the dome a lot easier. Regarding the first post, N&W had separate tender numbers and would often move them around among different classes of engines. A lot of tenders on the early Y's were hand downs to E's and M's as bigger tenders were built in later steam years. The J's didn't get mixed up much if at all as there were normally only one or two in the shop at a time. There is an instance of two of the A's swapping out lead engines. One of them had a multi-bearing crosshead and the other had an alligator crosshead which made the two A's easy to spot until retired. |
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| Author: | Pat Fahey [ Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Tender on N&W 611 question |
Hi All I just would like to thank everyone for all the Great answers, and also I learned something from this post, Thank you all, Pat. |
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| Author: | klmiller611 [ Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Tender on N&W 611 question |
Will Sadler is correct. This is the same tank 611 had at the wreck, and indeed throughout her career. N&W did swap out tanks as needed, but that did not seem to happen with the Class J, at least as much as it was with freight power. There are only a handful of tender assignment lists available, through 1955, IIRC, but the Js tended to keep the same numbers through then at least Ken Miller |
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