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I thought I was clear that I wasn't referring to stuff your group owns that is painted/marked for the railroad that used it originally, but I have to clarify anyway.
I mean different logos for just your own group, for each time someone makes something new or paints equipment with something they like or a small meeting agreed to.
I'd consider a logo change would be right up there with changing the name of the group overall. Most groups wouldn't allow that to happen, so why do logos change so often for some groups?

and don't forget to protect your logo (and name).

IRM has at least two US trademark registrations.

5450900 and 5344463

https://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?c ... x=0&page=1

https://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?c ... x=0&page=1

Bob

depending on the situation that is a great way to start a war. The C&TS trademarked certain logos in 2000 when the "Friends" took over. All it sucessfully did was upset local business people. It may be wise to not trademark certain logos in certain situations.

Robby Peartree

Robby Peartree wrote:

Maybe, but a trip to the U.S. Patent and Trademark website and a search of key words you are thinking about using can save you a lot of trouble later. It's better to know if you are using something someone has already protected rather than receive a certified cease and desist letter in the mail.

I was at a good museum/tourist railroad recently and noticed they had several logos. One was on their T-shirts, another was on the side of a diesel, another was on stickers.
Each looked nice, all looked somewhat recent but none were anything like the other.
I've seen this in several places, where I suspect each time someone creates a new item, they just either decide to create their own logo for the operation/organization, or have whoever made the product do so.
It's classic non-profit group operations, but it's a massive failure for branding.

Author:	p51 [ Wed Aug 19, 2020 3:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Branding and logos?
I was at a good museum/tourist railroad recently and noticed they had several logos. One was on their T-shirts, another was on the side of a diesel, another was on stickers. Each looked nice, all looked somewhat recent but none were anything like the other. I've seen this in several places, where I suspect each time someone creates a new item, they just either decide to create their own logo for the operation/organization, or have whoever made the product do so. It's classic non-profit group operations, but it's a massive failure for branding. Sure, most of the public couldn't care less, but a consistent logo should be the only one that gets used. Sure, they can change over time (especially if it's bad or dated) but it shouldn't change each time you make a new item or paint some new equipment. Just putting it out there, is there consistent branding for your group?

Author:	Alan Walker [ Wed Aug 19, 2020 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Branding and logos?
Old Pueblo Trolley and Southern Arizona Transportation Museum each have an official logo that appears on official signage, merchandise and other stuff. The designs have not changed in years. On apparel with another main design, the logo appears in reduced size. OPT's official colors are buff cream and a deep green (something like Forest Green). The reason is that those were the colors used by one of the two private transit providers here in Tucson-Old Pueblo Transit Company. The other company (which was also the streetcar operator) was Tucson Rapid Transit Company whose colors were red and white. Interestingly enough, it does not appear that the companies operated in direct competition. Each had their "territory"-OPT served the south and west side and TRT served the north and east side. Getting back to the logos, the SATM logo also includes the tag "A Division of Old Pueblo Trolley, Inc" where space permits. As for the restored vehicles we operate, they are painted in the correct livery for their service operator. Signage mounted on the vehicle will show the OPT logo, along with signs used for display at car shows and community events. One of the big complaints from the membership when we were operating the streetcars on 4th Avenue was the fact that they were not lettered for OPT. As a result, a policy was made that each vehicle would have signage posted with the OPT logo by the doors and the tag "This vehicle owned and operated by Old Pueblo Trolley, Inc."

Author:	p51 [ Wed Aug 19, 2020 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Branding and logos?
I thought I was clear that I wasn't referring to stuff your group owns that is painted/marked for the railroad that used it originally, but I have to clarify anyway. I mean different logos for just your own group, for each time someone makes something new or paints equipment with something they like or a small meeting agreed to. I'd consider a logo change would be right up there with changing the name of the group overall. Most groups wouldn't allow that to happen, so why do logos change so often for some groups?

Author:	Alan Walker [ Wed Aug 19, 2020 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Branding and logos?
p51 wrote: I thought I was clear that I wasn't referring to stuff your group owns that is painted/marked for the railroad that used it originally, but I have to clarify anyway. I mean different logos for just your own group, for each time someone makes something new or paints equipment with something they like or a small meeting agreed to. I'd consider a logo change would be right up there with changing the name of the group overall. Most groups wouldn't allow that to happen, so why do logos change so often for some groups? I suspect the reason that our logos haven't changed is that we've not had much change at the leadership level. All of the managers have pretty much left them alone. The designs have been standardized, so we don't change them.

Author:	jayrod [ Wed Aug 19, 2020 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Branding and logos?
I, too, have seen a few organizations use different logos or color schemes and it may cause confusion for the general public. Once you come up with a good logo and a standard color scheme, stick with it. Think Coca-Cola. You don’t really have to look at their logo to know exactly what it is. That’s brand recognition. It pains me to see even minor modifications in design or color for the simple reason of “because so-and-so (who knows nothing of marketing) thought that looked better”.

Railway Preservation News https://www.rypn.org/forums/

Branding and logos? https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=44775	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Crescent-Zephyr [ Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Branding and logos?
I’ve heard of rivet counters... but logo counters?

Author:	jayrod [ Thu Aug 20, 2020 8:56 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Branding and logos?
Your logo, which is part of your branding, is extremely important. It should reflect in some way what you do and who you are. It should be on anything considered promotional and then some. A good logo works on a subliminal level. It doesn’t have to be a fancy graphic. It could be just text but in a very specific font. When people recognize it, which is the goal, it keeps your company/organization somewhere in the back of their mind. If you keep changing your logo, then your brand won’t stick with them. Unless that’s the point if you offer a lousy experience. Branding is big business. A lot of money is spent just to come up with a great logo that sticks with people.

Author:	OkieAndy [ Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Branding and logos?
Our Oklahoma Railway Museum logo is based on the MKT logos, with our name and initials substituted for the MKT's. It looks nice and it's historically relevant to the area. In fact our line is a piece of the old MKT Oklahoma City to Bartlesville line. We've had this logo for years and I don't think anyone has really thought of changing it, it's easier for us to keep the same one.

Author:	patentable [ Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Branding and logos?
and don't forget to protect your logo (and name). IRM has at least two US trademark registrations. 5450900 and 5344463 https://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?c ... x=0&page=1 https://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?c ... x=0&page=1 Bob

Author:	Robby Peartree [ Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Branding and logos?
patentable wrote: and don't forget to protect your logo (and name). IRM has at least two US trademark registrations. 5450900 and 5344463 https://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?c ... x=0&page=1 https://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?c ... x=0&page=1 Bob Depending on the situation that is a great way to start a war. The C&TS trademarked certain logos in 2000 when the "Friends" took over. All it sucessfully did was upset local business people. It may be wise to not trademark certain logos in certain situations. Robby Peartree

Author:	diningcartim [ Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Branding and logos?
Robby Peartree wrote: depending on the situation that is a great way to start a war. The C&TS trademarked certain logos in 2000 when the "Friends" took over. All it sucessfully did was upset local business people. It may be wise to not trademark certain logos in certain situations. Robby Peartree Maybe, but a trip to the U.S. Patent and Trademark website and a search of key words you are thinking about using can save you a lot of trouble later. It's better to know if you are using something someone has already protected rather than receive a certified cease and desist letter in the mail.

Author:	Robby Peartree [ Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Branding and logos?
diningcartim wrote: Robby Peartree wrote: depending on the situation that is a great way to start a war. The C&TS trademarked certain logos in 2000 when the "Friends" took over. All it sucessfully did was upset local business people. It may be wise to not trademark certain logos in certain situations. Robby Peartree Maybe, but a trip to the U.S. Patent and Trademark website and a search of key words you are thinking about using can save you a lot of trouble later. It's better to know if you are using something someone has already protected rather than receive a certified cease and desist letter in the mail. True but when things were being used for years by the public and then you say you are all of a sudden collect royalties on a logo you open a can of worms. To make matters worse for the C&TS case the property is owned by the states and many of the local citizens expressed their unhappyness. It is important to understand the social enviornment you are in. Robby Peartree

Author:	patentable [ Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Branding and logos?
Registration isn't so much to collect royalties. It's a way of controlling souvenirs bearing your name, a way to prevent a museum or for profit from using a similar name, a way of preventing a splinter group from calling themselves the same or similar name. A way to prevent others from profiting on your good will. Lots of benefits with relatively little expense. You can hand out royalty free licenses if you wish so long as you maintain "control" over quality and presentation.

Author:	Crescent-Zephyr [ Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Branding and logos?
p51 wrote: I was at a good museum/tourist railroad recently and noticed they had several logos. One was on their T-shirts, another was on the side of a diesel, another was on stickers. Each looked nice, all looked somewhat recent but none were anything like the other. I've seen this in several places, where I suspect each time someone creates a new item, they just either decide to create their own logo for the operation/organization, or have whoever made the product do so. It's classic non-profit group operations, but it's a massive failure for branding. Products for retail shouldn't necessarily have the standard corporate logo. Nobody knows branding and merchandise better than Disney. At disney world you don't only see merchandise with the standard Disney font. They have retro designs, older logos, retired fonts, etc. A design for a sticker or a t-shirt can be just that.

Author:	jayrod [ Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Branding and logos?
CZ - by bringing up Disney, you’re making my point. The first script version of the “Walt Disney” signature in their logo dates to 1929. It was revised slightly in 1986 and remains unchanged today though the rest of the company name has changed. If you want to find out how much Disney or any company values their logo, try selling stuff with a bootlegged logo and see how long it takes to be contacted by a very expensive law firm. Various protruding body parts will get caught in the proverbial wringer. Nothing says you can’t freshen up your logo and it’s done quite often. But it’s usually more of an evolution of the same design than a total redesign. A company that totally changes their logo usually does it with fanfare while changing the direction of said company to distinguish between old and new. To have multiple unrelated logo designs in use at the same time goes against basic Marketing 101 and really doesn’t reflect well on your organization - it looks like you don’t know what you’re doing. Like a high school amateur sort of thing.

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