For the sake of transparency, could the moderator who locked/killed the thread please let us know why? When I turned in last night, it was civil and provided some good food for thought to all of our various railroads and museums who are enduring the pandemic.

Thanks,
Bill

It was with full certainty going to devolve into a crap shoot because a lot of it wasn’t really even about rail preservation, but the disease itself

Nothing said there hasn’t been said elsewhere in other places.

I don’t blame the mods for removing it entirely without warning. It could’ve gotten really ugly

So, we can no longer have civil discourse, because it could escalate? That's ridiculous. By that example, we shouldn't be allowed to drive, because it could result in accident. I'd still like an explanation from the Mods of exactly why it was taken down. I didn't see any personal attacks or mudslinging.

Unfortunately COVID is the new reality, I think being able to talk about difficult subjects that we face as a community is important to us all getting through it and lets us learn from the mistakes and also successful ideas that others have used.

Sure, not everyone will agree with a particular perspective or opinion, but that's all part of coming to a better solution. We shouldn't just ban anything that's tough or controversial especially when the discussion as it were was indeed civil, and presenting opposing viewpoints and affects this community in a heavy way.

Don't forget, it's often the hard topics that make or break an organization. I for one, certainly appreciate a diversity of ideas/perspectives perhaps even more so when they challenge my own.

Question:

Is there any way to address the issues that will be raised with such a discussion without devolving into the validity, or lack thereof, of the various measures proposed/imposed to (supposedly) counter this disease and its spread?

The two options seem to be:

1) Take the position that "The law says we have to do X, Y, and Z. This is the best way we can act within those parameters and still be open." (See also: just about every bar in the nation right now.)
2) Point out that such laws don't exist that cover what you do and/or in your jurisdiction, or in some cases take some liberties with the laws as written, and voluntarily take appropriate measures.

Either way right now, you will most certainly get condemned for not shutting down completely, at least by the small but not insignificant "everyone hide in a bunker" crowd.

As far as I know, no one in the rail excursion field is being the "mavericks" that insist on operation "business as normal," the way some now-closed-by-law-enforcement bars and dance clubs did, however briefly.

Whether the Wuhan Virus is a threat or not, whether the measures imposed are effective, and/or the politics forcibly involved are not topics that can be reasonably debated here.
Whether you can or should be running Santa Specials or any trips at all, and how, are legitimate subjects for debate--but that tends to devolve into those other topics above.
"This is the hand we've been dealt. It sucks. How do we play it without losing everything to the dealer?"

It's also the model/rule that has been forced on us by editors, "gatekeepers," etc. for about the past decade or more.

Or, as one associate of mine is wont to say, "'SHUT UP,' they explained. 'That's different, because SHUT UP.'"

If that's the "new normal" here, it will be the death of this forum, and a further nail in the coffin for the future of rail preservation.

I tend to agree. My question still remains. What part of last night's discussion violated forum rules? There were some good, rational posts in the thread, including yours.

These are my thoughts exactly. Written better than I would have written them.

It would also be well to bear in mind that everybody's situation is different and reacting in a judgemental way to another's decision without knowing the context and execution just compounds ignorance.

I was there myself. It was escalating very clearly.

It’s not a case of “it could escalate”. It was lowering in civility and it was getting wayyyyy too off topic of rail preservation.

My 2 cents. I didn't see the thread but there are plenty of news items to be searched on the web concerning this topic. I read and research RYPN and there is a trove of information buried in here, it is my understanding that the real reason for RYPN is for preservation topics and many years ago there was concern of this site going away. I can't remember the particulars at this moment but things were remedied. I feel that staying on topic from this site has great benefits, other boards have leaned heavily away from their original plans and have too much of other off topic information.

Now for being on topic. To preserve RYPN and it's integrity of rail preservation as intended, I tend to agree with moderation of subjects that get way out of hand or begin to go sideways.

Vincent D.

The moderators do not owe you any explanation for their actions.

I imagine this thread will also disappear once moderators see the racial slur in post #5.

Tim is correct and we are guests is someone else's house. The is a very nicely run forum, server is fast and the software is excellent for the forum. I am familiar with these problems as I personally own and run 4 forums, one since September 2000 and co-run another. Running from motorcycles to cancer. I have dealt with the issues of member arguments, flaming, bombs and bad social habits. Since January 2020 things have changed and possibly for a very long time.

The issue of fact and perceived fact of this virus topic which dominates all news and a great deal of conversation, is a first for our nation and may well be a deciding factor in our society for a very long time. And YES it is an overruling factor in railroading in the non-commercial arena. This forum and it's members are hobbiests. This is not a forum for commercial operations on a non tourist or museum basis. There are other forums out there for commercial operations. We are in what the government calls non-essential. Thus museums whether working or static display are under several levels of regulation. Who makes those regulations, what they are and how applied will determine the continuation or dissolution of the activities we discuss here. In that respect and a very big one, this virus issue whether real or perceived or represented, will be a deciding factor in all of our activities.

As I posted previous on this forum, we purchased two locomotives from a museum in a European country which is preparing for, not to be disclosed, dissolution over their governmental regulations. The basis of those regulations is an issue of that government. The two steam locomotives I am slowing negotiating over, will purchase only one, one is from a museum and one is from a theme park. The museum is closed and in quandary, the theme park is closed and is discussing internally a re-organization and may eliminate all railroad activities from the park since society is drifting away from interests in railroading and the costs of operation are outweighed by benefit.

That is where we are at, an open discussion, without profanity but using real data, no matter how uncomfortable for some, is the only way an AMERICAN society as it has existed for over 200 years can continue to exist. It will change, it is changing, how far from what we grew up with is up to us to decide, don't let a small elite few or foreign interests decide for our nation.

Dan

I believe it is because I compared the attitudes of some of the covid-minimizing, "our-trains-need-to-make-money" posters in that thread to the attitude of the mayor in the original Jaws movie, and another poster agreed with my assessment. It was deleted shortly afterward.

It was not I that deleted the thread, but I did post to it and stand behind what I said.

I tend to let threads progress as long as they are not devolving into personal attacks or stray beyond any semblance of relevance. Covid is the most important topic in rail preservation this year, and it is frustrating that we are being actively discouraged from discussing it.

There is also an unwritten law of Internet forums at work here, which is that a deleted thread on a controversial topic will create more threads, posts and discussion than if it were simply allowed to run its course and die a natural death. Hence this thread.