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| Children's Railways https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45388 |
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| Author: | Zach Lybrand [ Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Children's Railways |
Having recently watched a video about Children's Railways in former USSR countries, I began thinking about the possibilities of something similar in the US. For those unfamiliar, Children's Railways are miniature railroads, almost live steam-esque, which mirror their "adult" counterparts in functionality and form in order to train children ranging from about 14 to 18 years old on how to perform a variety of roles on the railroad. Although there was direct adult supervision, these kids do all of the work from track and rolling stock maintenance to dispatching and operation. Children were initially introduced to this relatively early in school, and if they elected to continue this career path, would take special classes at their local state run schools, continuing to refine their career path as the years in school progressed. The ultimate goal was that when the juvenile graduated high school (or whatever you may call the Eastern European/Soviet equivalent), a successful student could immediately transition into a career in the full size railway and have a steady job waiting for them. There's a relatively recent pushback against the urging of school counselors that all high school kids must go to college and thusly prepare themselves. I'm certainly one of them; I'd be more likely to urge a high schooler to go to a trade school for plumbing or pipe fitting before getting a bachelor's in business if it felt more comfortable to them. Could something like this be implemented in America? The biggest hurdles I see are thus: 1. Insurance: I can't even begin to imagine what it would cost to insure (assuming you could find an insurer) a railroad operated by people who aren't legally adults. 2. Capital: It wouldn't be cheap to miniaturize a 26C (or even a 30A-CDW!) or any other component of the railroad. Something of this scale could only be completed with either a corporate sponsorship, funding from an amenable public school district, or hopefully both. 3. Job experience credits: perhaps the promise of a secure future would persuade more younger people to participate. Would it be better to form a partnership with a Class 1 that pays extremely well, but furloughs frequently, or a shortline holding company that doesn't pay as much but where no one can remember when the last furlough was? A sense of stability would certainly appeal to a lot of younger people, but if there was zero chance that this experience would have any benefit, nobody would participate. This is the kind of program that could be used to instill good working values in the next generation of railroaders, which is a virtue that I see plenty of people on here lamenting. By having experienced and capable adult personnel on hand demonstrating work ethics, a program such as this could easily have a major positive influence on every kid that went through it. What are your thoughts? I'd genuinely like to hear. I am certainly far from experienced in such matters myself, so I figured that I would do the one thing that I can consistently do well: prod the knowledge of those around me with more experience. |
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| Author: | QJdriver [ Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Children's Railways |
The 15" gauge, live steam (with diesel) Dresdener Parkeisenbahn is an example of exactly what you are talking about, and is very much a going concern today. I have a friend who was a boy growing up in Dresden during the last years of the DDR, and became a Fahrdienstleiter (towerman) on this system. Now, he's in middle management of Deutsch Bahn. If you are seriously interested in setting up something like that, you might want to check them out: www.dresdener-parkeisenbahn.de Don't know how this would fly in the USA, but a lot of Germans are pretty smart and speak fine English, it couldn't hurt to ask their advice. |
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| Author: | Dave [ Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Children's Railways |
One of the smartest Millennials I have worked with decided to get into the Operating Engineer trade on his own, not by getting a degree from a community college (although that's not a bad way to begin) but by working with family and friends in the electrical, plumbing and HVAC trades. He also networks well. He's making good money working in critical facilities without the economic drag of student loan debt holding him back. I think in the US the Educational Industrial Complex combined with government sponsored loans and the drive from private industry to shed the costs of training via traditional apprenticeship into the Educational sector would need a systemic sea change to reverse or alter course. It also seems like High Schools have eliminated a lot of trade prep courses (like Shop) for nothing but college prep, when any HS grad should be, ideally, ready to pursue a career capable of providing a living wage. |
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| Author: | TRS [ Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Germany: Park Railways Featuring Narrow Gauge Steam Locomoti |
Berliner Parkeisenbahn: https://www.parkeisenbahn.de/index.php/startseite.html De Lütt Kaffeebrenner, Klütz: http://www.stiftung-deutsche-kleinbahnen.de/ Parkeisenbahn Chemnitz: http://www.parkeisenbahn-chemnitz.de/ Parkeisenbahn Cottbus: http://www.pe-cottbus.de/ Parkeisenbahn Wulheide (Berlin): https://www.parkeisenbahn.de/startseite.html |
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| Author: | 70000 [ Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Children's Railways |
The Budapest one in Hungary is one of the better known ones, being 760mm gauge and about 7 miles long.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_ ... 7s_Railway They do have some historic rolling stock in addition to the diesel locos as well, including an elderly railcar and a steam loco, seen here back in 2002... Attachment: 02-351a.JPG [ 198.82 KiB | Viewed 7178 times ] Attachment: 02-353a.JPG [ 241.76 KiB | Viewed 7178 times ] |
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| Author: | Crescent-Zephyr [ Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Children's Railways |
Another issue in the USA is having railroads take you seriously if you came from a “miniature” railroad. Many railroads consider it a negative if you have experience at a museum or tourist rail operation cause you’re a “fan” or “foamer.” |
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| Author: | Trolleyguy [ Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Children's Railways |
Crescent-Zephyr wrote: Another issue in the USA is having railroads take you seriously if you came from a “miniature” railroad. Many railroads consider it a negative if you have experience at a museum or tourist rail operation cause you’re a “fan” or “foamer.” Not always true. Years ago, I was the GM of a tourist railroad where we had a young fellow who really was into the maintenance of equipment. When he applied for a job as a diesel mechanic with the UP, I was contacted by them for a reference. They were very knowledgeable about our operation and I was able to convince them that the candidate would be an excellent addition to their railroad. That young man is now the head of of locomotive repair and making a very good living. |
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| Author: | PaulWWoodring [ Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Children's Railways |
I came across a video on Eastern Block children's railways last night and commented that if I had lived there in that era I certainly would have tried to get on with one of them as a child. Yes, this is something that I wish we had here. |
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| Author: | Bartman-TN [ Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Children's Railways |
A lot of these railroads were not miniatures, they used full-sized equipment. Many used the equipment of 3-foot gauge railroads as they were abandoned or standard-gauged, and even older standard-gauge equipment. I rode a number of these over the years in Eastern Europe, USSR and Cuba, and they tried to operate as close as they could to the real standards. Many were simply schools for children, training them for their careers. Bart Jennings |
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| Author: | PaulWWoodring [ Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Children's Railways |
If something like that were ever tried here it would have to have support of the local community, and probably one or more railroads as a tool for developing future employees. I could think of two or three places where railroads are a significant enough employer in the U. S. to sell the idea to a community: The Chicago area, the Atlanta, GA area, and North Platte, NE. The smallest gauge I would even consider for something like this would be 15". Thing is, it has to be large enough to use conventional air brakes, which is such a major part of any railroad operation it can't be ignored. I'm thinking 600mm would be optimal. It gets you below the 24" ga. FRA minimum for regulation if the operation avoids public highway grade crossings, yet it's big enough to effectively operate trains realistically (just ask our friends at the WW&F). Also, there would be ready parts available from overseas. |
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| Author: | Jennie K [ Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Children's Railways |
As probably a few of you know, Mr. Woodring got his start on a railroad that still uses link and pin couplings, steam jam brakes, and some locomotives were stopped by judicious use of the Johnson bar. |
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| Author: | PaulWWoodring [ Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Children's Railways |
Jennie K wrote: As probably a few of you know, Mr. Woodring got his start on a railroad that still uses link and pin couplings, steam jam brakes, and some locomotives were stopped by judicious use of the Johnson bar. True, partially anyway. It's amazing how the small fraternity of this avocation/profession/hobby winds it's way through one's life. Before Cedar Point I helped an early friend and mentor build and operate his live steam railroad, and still help his son and wife with events there. I ended up at Cedar Point due in no small measure to another member of the Akron Railroad Club, Jerry Jacobson, who knew and traded parts with then-CP&LE Superintendent Mike Hetrick. I got some invaluable OBS experience through another friend and sometimes program presenter at the Akron Railroad Club, Dave Corbitt, helping on his lounge car Eagle Canon, on some NS trips pulled by 765 in the early 1980s, and before that was a car host out of high school in the first years of the Cuyahoga Valley Line with ex-GTW 4070, in no small measure because of someone in the Akron club who was an officer of Midwest Chapter. It truly is more who you know rather than what you know sometimes. And as for the CP&LE, last I knew, they pretty much now always stop with judicious use of the Johnson bar. |
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| Author: | Ted_Delphia [ Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Children's Railways |
Here's kidzania in Tokyo (there are a number of these, about a dozen or more, with the first starting in Mexico City). Obviously with the train culture and extensive passenger service there, it was a no-brainer to add engineers and conductors to the work opportunities: https://www.kidzania.jp/koshien/en/acti ... ation.html |
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