Railway Preservation News :: View topic - Feasibility of Operating Preserved Electric Locomotives?

Greetings all,

The premise of my question is essentially the title of this thread. Just how feasible would it be, especially in non-electrified territory, to operate a preserved electric locomotive? While asinine and completely unlikely, it has always been a curiosity to me.

In an era where a Big Boy has been brought back to steam and the EBT is under new ownership, there is zero reason why a GG1 could not be brought back to operation. All is takes is the right people, with the right technical approach, with the right connections, with the right amount of funding in hand. Anything is possible it seems today, we see examples of the impossible becoming the possible in many corners of our community. Its just a matter of that right someone taking the lead and making it happen.

J.R. May

I've seen other places that have a "generator car" trailing behind a trolley, where there is no electricity. So my guess is that theoretically, it could be feasible. But how big of a generator would you need? If it's something ridiculously huge - at that point, is it even worth it?

I received a call a number of years ago from a gentleman who wanted my opinion on his idea of filling the car body of a GG1 with automobile batteries to power it on mainline excursions...

Kelly Anderson wrote:

I received a call a number of years ago from a gentleman who wanted my opinion on his idea of filling the car body of a GG1 with automobile batteries to power it on mainline excursions...

So.....what was your reply?
:-)

bigjim4life wrote:

I had an idea (not sure if it's a good idea) which would be to utilize a similar period diesel-electric locomotive, with the generator/alternator setup to power the attached GG1 in front of it. Heck, just make the GG1 basically a slug powered by the locomotive behind it, and don't worry about any transformers....

bigjim4life wrote:

Author:	InterlockingTower [ Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Feasibility of Operating Preserved Electric Locomotives?
Greetings all, The premise of my question is essentially the title of this thread. Just how feasible would it be, especially in non-electrified territory, to operate a preserved electric locomotive? While asinine and completely unlikely, it has always been a curiosity to me. Anything from a DD1 to an AEM-7 and anything in between. With the exception of few trolley museums, there are no electrified tourist railroads I'm aware of here in the states. Most electrified roads are on different power systems than what most retired locomotives were designed for. If that is not the case, good luck getting a heritage operation on any modern line. Could a generator car be made to provide power comparable to third rail or overhead catenary? Also, would there be enough interest from the public to even undertake an endeavor such as that? Everything seems to revolve around the few F units still operating and essentially any steam locomotive. I have not found much on rypn about electric preservation. Well, if you exclude anything GG1 related that is...

Author:	Crescent-Zephyr [ Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Feasibility of Operating Preserved Electric Locomotives?
You need to plan yourself a visit to the Illinois Railway Museum!

Author:	PRR8063 [ Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Feasibility of Operating Preserved Electric Locomotives?
InterlockingTower wrote: Greetings all, The premise of my question is essentially the title of this thread. Just how feasible would it be, especially in non-electrified territory, to operate a preserved electric locomotive? While asinine and completely unlikely, it has always been a curiosity to me. I agree that it is completely unlikely, but theoretically the best bet would probably be West Chester RR. I am saying this as they still have the old PRR Catenary poles on their line, albeit no wire. The first trouble would be getting SEPTA to allow them to re-string wire (as they lease their line from SEPTA). The next big question is what locomotive? This matters because the locomotive's heritage determines where you get the power from. Example, PRR electrics need 12kV at 25hz. Others have different electrical requirements. If it is a PRR electric, you could maybe buy from SEPTA/Amtrak (more likely to see pigs fly than this ever happening) as they run their system on that voltage/frequency. The other options are to buy off the utility company (which would require you to build your own frequency converter) or generate your own electricity. Trolley museums have it easier because most trolley systems were designed for low voltage DC operation (no trouble with frequency conversion). On top of all this, if it's an older electric, you most likely have to install a new transformer in the engine, on top of whatever other restoration needs the locomotive would have. The best candidate would be a GG1 as it's one of the most well know locomotives throughout history - there would be a significant interest (and by that, I mean funding) in seeing one run again. Plus, there are 16(?) surviving examples so it would be okay to gut one of them and put new parts in as the other survivors can stay "original". Again, before everyone jumps down my throat, this is all a giant theoretical "what if" situation. I recognize that we're collectively more likely to hit the powerball than for this to ever happen because of how expensive it would be and there's not enough interest.

Author:	Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:34 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Feasibility of Operating Preserved Electric Locomotives?
Here's a valid comment: Electricity isn't free. You will find that even at trolley museums running on only 600 or so volts, there is a preference for cars that are easy on power and a bias away from power-hungry cars for regular, routine service. The joke--and it's only partially a tongue-in-cheek one--is that the Liberty Liner four-car high-speed train at Rockhill Trolley Museum (a former North Shore Electroliner) sees very limited use in large part because "Every time we accelerate out of the terminal, all the lights in this part of the county dim a bit!" The logistics and economics of "converting a GG1 to run on trolley overhead" is one of the Themes That Will NOT Die in this forum; it has been discussed ad nauseum. Check the FAQ topic for a link. The situation would be the same for just about any preserved electric loco surviving in the USA today, with the possible exception of the trolley boxcab switcher at the B&O Railroad Museum.

Author:	JR May [ Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:28 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Feasibility of Operating Preserved Electric Locomotives?
In an era where a Big Boy has been brought back to steam and the EBT is under new ownership, there is zero reason why a GG1 could not be brought back to operation. All is takes is the right people, with the right technical approach, with the right connections, with the right amount of funding in hand. Anything is possible it seems today, we see examples of the impossible becoming the possible in many corners of our community. Its just a matter of that right someone taking the lead and making it happen. J.R. May

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Author:	Heavenrich [ Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Feasibility of Operating Preserved Electric Locomotives?
JR May wrote: In an era where a Big Boy has been brought back to steam and the EBT is under new ownership, there is zero reason why a GG1 could not be brought back to operation. All is takes is the right people, with the right technical approach, with the right connections, with the right amount of funding in hand. Anything is possible it seems today, we see examples of the impossible becoming the possible in many corners of our community. Its just a matter of that right someone taking the lead and making it happen. J.R. May Don't forget the cost of meeting the environmental regs .... Bob H

Author:	bigjim4life [ Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Feasibility of Operating Preserved Electric Locomotives?
I've seen other places that have a "generator car" trailing behind a trolley, where there is no electricity. So my guess is that theoretically, it could be feasible. But how big of a generator would you need? If it's something ridiculously huge - at that point, is it even worth it?

Author:	jrevans [ Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:17 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Feasibility of Operating Preserved Electric Locomotives?
bigjim4life wrote: I've seen other places that have a "generator car" trailing behind a trolley, where there is no electricity. So my guess is that theoretically, it could be feasible. But how big of a generator would you need? If it's something ridiculously huge - at that point, is it even worth it? I had an idea (not sure if it's a good idea) which would be to utilize a similar period diesel-electric locomotive, with the generator/alternator setup to power the attached GG1 in front of it. Heck, just make the GG1 basically a slug powered by the locomotive behind it, and don't worry about any transformers....

Author:	wesp [ Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Feasibility of Operating Preserved Electric Locomotives?
Link here: "Can/Should we restore a PRR GG1 to operation?"

Author:	Kelly Anderson [ Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Feasibility of Operating Preserved Electric Locomotives?
.

Author:	LVRR2095 [ Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Feasibility of Operating Preserved Electric Locomotives?
Kelly Anderson wrote: I received a call a number of years ago from a gentleman who wanted my opinion on his idea of filling the car body of a GG1 with automobile batteries to power it on mainline excursions... So.....what was your reply? :-)

Author:	Dennis Storzek [ Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Feasibility of Operating Preserved Electric Locomotives?
LVRR2095 wrote: Kelly Anderson wrote: I received a call a number of years ago from a gentleman who wanted my opinion on his idea of filling the car body of a GG1 with automobile batteries to power it on mainline excursions... So.....what was your reply? :-) Wait until I buy into a battery supplier :-)

Author:	Nova55 [ Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Feasibility of Operating Preserved Electric Locomotives?
jrevans wrote: bigjim4life wrote: I've seen other places that have a "generator car" trailing behind a trolley, where there is no electricity. So my guess is that theoretically, it could be feasible. But how big of a generator would you need? If it's something ridiculously huge - at that point, is it even worth it? I had an idea (not sure if it's a good idea) which would be to utilize a similar period diesel-electric locomotive, with the generator/alternator setup to power the attached GG1 in front of it. Heck, just make the GG1 basically a slug powered by the locomotive behind it, and don't worry about any transformers.... Its a neat concept... But if your going to be dragging around a diesel that's running at a good RPM (putting the proper power requirements aside)..why bother even powering the thing? Just shove it around with the diesel, and use it as a cab car. Its not like it will really be making any noise to begin with.

Author:	PRR8063 [ Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Feasibility of Operating Preserved Electric Locomotives?
jrevans wrote: bigjim4life wrote: I've seen other places that have a "generator car" trailing behind a trolley, where there is no electricity. So my guess is that theoretically, it could be feasible. But how big of a generator would you need? If it's something ridiculously huge - at that point, is it even worth it? I had an idea (not sure if it's a good idea) which would be to utilize a similar period diesel-electric locomotive, with the generator/alternator setup to power the attached GG1 in front of it. Heck, just make the GG1 basically a slug powered by the locomotive behind it, and don't worry about any transformers.... At that point, might as well just shove the GG1 as an unpowered "dummy unit". Personally, I wouldn't want to see a GG1 with a generator car in tow. Power electronics have come a long way since these locomotives were originally built. I think a transformer to fit the space would be surprisingly cheaper (still would be pricey) and easier to find than most people would expect. Many small businesses have their own custom built transformers served from 13kV distribution lines. New transformer would be more efficient (and probably smaller/less weight). The weight difference between can be made up by adding ballast in in the appropriate spots.

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Author:	Crescent-Zephyr [ Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Feasibility of Operating Preserved Electric Locomotives?
10 years ago if you were asked to put money down on seeing the 611 or a GG1 operate at Strasburg would you have realistically put all your chips on “611” - I know I wouldn’t have!