This is a thread where we can discuss confined space entry into historic railroad equipment. If you have a question about confined space entry or want to share a particular experience or procedure based on your working in preservation this is the thread to post.

This is some kind of a sick joke, right??? Two folks get incinerated in a horrific accident yesterday and we can't discuss that because it might relate to someone's sacred cow. But work in "confined space" is A O K...

I guess ADM was right. There was nothing preservation could learn from THAT situation...

OSHA has good resources on confined space entry. There are more of them in preservaton than a lot of people realize. Boiler interiors, fireboxes, tender tanks, etc. To claim that recent events involving death is not "related to preservation" is like saying that the safety culture doesn't apply to preservation either.

https://www.osha.gov/confined-spaces

That particular situation happened outside of preservation and there are absolutely no details available. The tragedy may bring up the issue of confined space entry so feel free to discuss it as it relates to preservation. Let me remind you that April is be kind to your volunteer moderators month.

Tom Gears
Moderator

I would offer that pretty much ANY situation railroad related is by extension applicable to the preservation of same.

In the thread that I started yesterday that was deleted by one of our "friendly" moderators, I suggested that many organizations have tank cars preserved in their collection(s). This incident is a reminder for the preservation side of railroading to review how they approach work on those cars. I also suggested that since the affected company worked in the preservation arena that it might be appropriate to extend the discussion of safety with these things to your contractors working on them.

So, in the kindest way possible... Exactly how was any of that irrelevant to preservation?

I invite my account to be deleted for the sake of being a champion for safety in our industry. Those who support silencing or canceling discussion surrounding safety are digging yourself into a hole that will end in further loss of life. Lessons are learned in blood. Tread at your own risk.

Here were the 3 discussion points from my OP :

1. CSE (confined space entry) as it relates to railcars and other vessels. I remember discussions previously here on RYPN on whether or not entry into a locomotive boiler necessitated a CSE per OSHA. Despite the similarities associated with entering a boiler have with any other vessel not suited for human occupancy, a locomotive boiler is part of a locomotive situated on the rail network qualifies it for governance under the FRA and not OSHA nor their CSE guidelines. Does a railcar (tanker) fall under the same jurisdiction or do they have special consideration given the hazardous substances they can and typically carry?

2. Even if not required due to the extents/limitations of FRA/OSHA, would an insurance carrier mandate conformance to the more restrictive code if a repair facility engaged in hazardous repair work?

3. Could this event be a catalyst or more restrictive measures (CSE Requirement) for railroad equipment up to any including historic equipment.

Looking forward to your feedback,

Jeff

What are the facts regarding the tank car fatalities?? Can someone post a link to an article giving the facts??

Thanks, Ross Rowland

Etalcos and myself posted links to articles regarding the incident but they're not welcome here apparently. I guess just Google it for now.

Jeff

There are no facts other than there was a tragic double fatality. People have shattered lives and we're not going to go down the road of people bad mouthing anyone here.

There was ZERO bad-mouthing in my OP. I posted a link to the article and brought in a thoughtful discussion on how it directly related to our industry given inherent similarities regarding equipment, practices, and job tasks. The assumption was made that it was going to devolve into a mud-slinging fest without giving users the opportunity have a civil and relevant discussion. This is about safety and if there is an opportunity to learn/grow from such a tragedy why wouldn't we AT LEAST discuss it?

Jeff

Tom,

I’ve also wondered about fall protection in locomotive shops.

When I’ve brought up safety issues on the job, it’s usually frowned upon by leadership, it’s hard to know how to bring up legitimate safety issues in a proper way.

This is a broad and simplified view; if the bottom of your feet are more than 6 feet off the ground and you do not have fall protection, you are probably doing it wrong.

The only preservation effort I've seen following prescribed OSHA fall protection to the letter is the Union Pacific steam crew.

I’ve noticed that too. I remember seeing fall protection during the layover in Cheyenne Wyoming on a Frontier Days train many years ago (old steam crew, not current).

The original post linked to an article describing, vaguely, a double fatality in an explosion at a commercial railcar repair facility which happened to be run by a certain antagonist in rail preservation discussions currently.

There was NO indication in the article or post comments that said explosion and fatalities:

1) involved any piece of "preserved" equipment or preservation, or even necessarily any railroad rolling stock whatsoever;
2) involved "confined space" or other OSHA safety parameters that should be discussed here;
3) was yet attributable to a specific cause that could be discussed.

As a result, the posting came off as another attempt to indirectly slam a certain contractor for alleged improprieties or lax behaviors, this having (apparently) naught to do with preservation. I'm as "free speech" as they come, but this seemed to be merely a personal attack (even if true). By the stretch it takes to justify this as "related to our safety," we should have convened safety meetings to discuss safety issues in the aftermath of major Amtrak disasters like Chase 1987, Philly 2015, or Big Bayou Canot 1993.

"Let's review how to evacuate submerged rail cars...."
"Boss, we run through a g*dd*mned DESERT!!!! The only water is that puddle under the danged water tank!"

I routinely get news reports of employee fatalities being investigated at private rail car shops, car builders, and Class One facilities nationwide. Should I repost them here so they can be discussed, even though there's seldom a specific cause listed or recommendation issued?

I'm reminded of the time I was working in a facility that called a mandatory morning safety meeting, company-wide, where our supervisor spent 20+ minutes going over ALL the definitions of "confined space," reviewing all the protocols and measures involved, etc. and then finally wrapped up the meeting with "There are NO confined spaces, as legally defined, in this facility"--to the nearly audible sight of fifty pairs of eyes rolling.........

It is not just toxic chemicals that can kill, a low-oxygen atmosphere can be just as deadly.

This tragedy from 15 years ago is still well known and infamous in my area. Note that two paramedics were among the fatalities:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... t-1.582325