Quote:
It does work. It just requires being at the right place at the right time. This was coming out of a speed restriction south of Duluth, MN.
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Like.jpg [ 4.56 KiB | Viewed 14053 times ]
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| UP 4014 and PTC https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45765 |
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| Author: | bbunge [ Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | UP 4014 and PTC |
Of course UP 4014 starts it's 2021 tour tomorrow. Recently in a tweet, Kelly Lynch mentioned during it's recent test runs, 4014 was running with a type of PTC control that I gathered was connected to the trailing road locomotive's PTC system. I guess we can assume the tests went well since the tour is starting. Is there any information or can anyone describe how this system works and if any other mainline steam groups are exploring this system? Thanks, Bob |
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| Author: | mcgrath618 [ Wed Aug 04, 2021 12:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UP 4014 and PTC |
I imagine this is the first step towards installing PTC on the locomotive itself. Very exciting stuff. If a steam locomotive can be regulated by the PTC system on another diesel locomotive, the technology could easily be adapted to be in the loco itself. This could definitely help mainline steam have a resurgence in the future. |
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| Author: | BM765 [ Wed Aug 04, 2021 12:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UP 4014 and PTC |
I've been curious about this as well. My understanding was that some sort of new PTC system was installed on 4014 that somehow links to components on the trailing diesel. That could definitely be a game changer. I've heard that the break in runs for 4014 were basically to test out the system. It would be interesting to know the details. On the flip side, I've also heard rumor that nothing was installed on 4014 and PTC on the diesel is actually being used by making the diesel the controlling locomotive with the PTC calibrated for the length of 4014 and support cars in front. Basically, the train would operate as a shove move with 4014 being a giant shoving platform. I believe that would carry a 25mph speed restriction. |
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| Author: | EDM [ Wed Aug 04, 2021 1:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UP 4014 and PTC |
I suggested doing something similar 25 years ago with cab signal. My idea was to add connectors and trainlining the cab aspects from a trailing unit. This would have saved this particular shortline operator some serious money, by not having to equip the whole fleet. I was told that the pickup bar was required to be ahead of the lead axle. Shouldn't the same logic and requirements apply with PTC? |
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| Author: | p51 [ Wed Aug 04, 2021 2:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UP 4014 and PTC |
I, too, am interesting in hearing more on this. Sadly, this means that you're very unlikely to see 4014 running without a diesel in the future. There are a lot of people out there proclaiming that 4014 hasn't done anything but generate enough steam to run the dynamo/lubrication and whistle in all the times it's been out on the iron. I was really hoping to see 4014 pulling in it's own at least just one time to shut those people up. Reading about the PTC, I really doubt we'll see that happen. Darn. |
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| Author: | Kevin Gilliam [ Wed Aug 04, 2021 3:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UP 4014 and PTC |
p51 wrote: I, too, am interesting in hearing more on this. Sadly, this means that you're very unlikely to see 4014 running without a diesel in the future. There are a lot of people out there proclaiming that 4014 hasn't done anything but generate enough steam to run the dynamo/lubrication and whistle in all the times it's been out on the iron. I was really hoping to see 4014 pulling in it's own at least just one time to shut those people up. Reading about the PTC, I really doubt we'll see that happen. Darn. https://youtu.be/g0EuqshA-pU It does work. It just requires being at the right place at the right time. This was coming out of a speed restriction south of Duluth, MN. |
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| Author: | wesp [ Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UP 4014 and PTC |
Quote: It does work. It just requires being at the right place at the right time. This was coming out of a speed restriction south of Duluth, MN. Attachment: Like.jpg [ 4.56 KiB | Viewed 14053 times ] |
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| Author: | EJ Berry [ Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UP 4014 and P-TC |
Whoever said the Cab Signal (CSS) pickup bar had to be forward of the lead axle was correct. This applies also to Amtrak NEC's ACSES PTC system, which is CSS-based. The in-track carrier of the CSS information is sent from ahead of the train. The lead axle shunts that carrier as well as the block signal (ABS) current. UP had CSS on parts of the railroad, and 4014 was built with CSS, but UP does not use ACSES. Phil Mulligan |
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| Author: | BM765 [ Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UP 4014 and PTC |
EDM wrote: I suggested doing something similar 25 years ago with cab signal. My idea was to add connectors and trainlining the cab aspects from a trailing unit. This would have saved this particular shortline operator some serious money, by not having to equip the whole fleet. I was told that the pickup bar was required to be ahead of the lead axle. Shouldn't the same logic and requirements apply with PTC? I think you are correct and likewise PTC has to be on the lead locomotive, but there must be provisions in place for shoving. Otherwise you could never have a shove or reverse move on the mainline. Some have speculated that 4014 is utilizing the diesel's PTC by simply having the Diesel be the controlling locomotive shoving the 4014 and that there is no new technology involved. I think the apparent slow speeds in the schedule are helping fuel this rumor. I believe the truth is that something has been installed on 4014 that is somehow linked to the PTC "brains" on the diesel. If that's true it's big news and everyone is being awfully quiet about it. It could be this entire tour is a test of this system. |
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| Author: | p51 [ Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UP 4014 and PTC |
Kevin Gilliam wrote: https://youtu.be/g0EuqshA-pU I'm not saying it doesn't work, just saying it'd be great if they ran it without a diesel just once to shut up those who say it can't. That's all I'm saying. I fully believe 4014 can work exactly as it did back in the day, I just tire of all those who say that it can't and the diesels have to be there as it can't move otherwise (which I do not believe one bit, but many others do).
It does work. It just requires being at the right place at the right time. This was coming out of a speed restriction south of Duluth, MN. |
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| Author: | The big [ Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UP 4014 and PTC |
p51 wrote: Kevin Gilliam wrote: https://youtu.be/g0EuqshA-pU I'm not saying it doesn't work, just saying it'd be great if they ran it without a diesel just once to shut up those who say it can't. That's all I'm saying. I fully believe 4014 can work exactly as it did back in the day, I just tire of all those who say that it can't and the diesels have to be there as it can't move otherwise (which I do not believe one bit, but many others do).It does work. It just requires being at the right place at the right time. This was coming out of a speed restriction south of Duluth, MN. Maybe those people (not you) don't believe its easy for 4014 to track a passenger train Is a big difference a freight train vs a passenger train |
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| Author: | p51 [ Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UP 4014 and PTC |
The big wrote: Maybe those people (not you) don't believe its easy for 4014 to track a passenger train Maybe, but I several know people who run and work on steam who also don't believe 4014 has ever actually pulled anything other than it's own weight around the Cheyenne yard.
Is a big difference a freight train vs a passenger train |
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| Author: | The big [ Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UP 4014 and PTC |
p51 wrote: The big wrote: Maybe those people (not you) don't believe its easy for 4014 to track a passenger train Maybe, but I several know people who run and work on steam who also don't believe 4014 has ever actually pulled anything other than it's own weight around the Cheyenne yard.Is a big difference a freight train vs a passenger train Wow really if Union Pacific can program 4014 alone on a freight train like 3985 in the 90s. Just for shut up all these bad tongues |
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| Author: | p51 [ Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UP 4014 and PTC |
If UP has figured a way to hook PTC into 4014's direct operation, that'll change a lot of things for all the steam that either takes to main lines or whose crews who wish to do so in the future. I'd think eventually, "If you can't use PTC, I hope you have your own rails somewhere" will be the response from the railroads if this is indeed what UP figured out. The big wrote: Wow really if Union Pacific can program 4014 alone on a freight train like 3985 in the 90s. Exactly. Just for shut up all these bad tongues I have no idea why so many people (many of whom should know better) have watched online videos and declared that 4014 has never moved anything other than it's own weight at yard speeds. |
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| Author: | Kelly Anderson [ Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: UP 4014 and PTC |
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