https://www.fox19.com/2021/08/25/fundin ... oad-doubt/



More at the link.

I follow them on facebook, they picked up a Chessie System GP-30 from the Silvis scrap line a few months back, and have two NKP GP30s. They posted this (below) on their facebook page a week ago, I considered posting it but I sort of consider it another example of the "If you don't buy this magazine we'll shoot this dog" extortion phenomena that owners of locomotives try sometimes also. Seems like another version of the old story that you should if possible own your track, they are probably facing the quandary of not wanting to spend money on something they don't own, just like ITM. https://www.facebook.com/lmmrailroad/po ... 5246677475

"Lebanon Mason Monroe Railroad

HOW CAN WE SAVE THE LM&M RAILROAD?
AUGUST 20, 2021
LEBANON, OH — Now in existence for over 35 years, and operating as a non-profit for 6 of those years, the Lebanon Mason & Monroe Railroad continues to expand its community events and programs. The LM&M Railroad offers the only year around family-friendly train experiences in southwest Ohio and is proud to be firmly connected to the Lebanon community. And yet, our future here is not certain due to potential upcoming decisions by the Lebanon City Council.
The operating contract between the City and the LM&M Railroad expires in the first quarter of 2023. There are repairs that need to be completed on the railway, and both officials at the LM&M Railroad and the City are aggressively pursuing grant opportunities. The LM&M Railroad is also pursuing potential freight transload business which will help defray the cost of repairs to the track. If funding is not obtained to maintain track and infrastructure, the operating contract will not be renewed and 2022 will be the final year for the LM&M Railroad. The loss, both economic and social, to the City of Lebanon would be significant.
The economic support provided to the City of Lebanon from the LM&M Railroad is significant and measurable. According to a study from 2014, The LM&M Railroad has a 3.6-million-dollar economic impact on the City of Lebanon. The source of this impact comes from an average of 40,000 annual riders on the LM&M Railroad, of which 95% are from outside of Lebanon. Furthermore, the LM&M Railroad pays a per ticket fee of $0.75 per rider to the City. The stimulus that the LM&M Railroad injects into the economy of the City of Lebanon is indisputable. In a statement from the Warren County Convention & Visitors Bureau: “Tourism plays an incredibly vital role here in Warren County, as an average of more than 12 million visitors make their way to “Ohio’s Largest Playground” annually. In a typical year, the industry drives more than $1.3 billion in visitor spending and supports more than 12,000 jobs here locally. A longstanding favorite for Warren County visitors of all ages, The LM&M Railroad is a valuable asset for the Warren County tourism landscape winter, spring, summer and fall.”
The LM&M Railroad takes great pride in working closely with Lebanon businesses. To date, the LM&M Railroad has developed a strong partnership with the following local businesses: Cherry Street Café, 5 Alarm Flavors, The Golden Lamb, Thimble Gardens, Creech’s Landscaping, Case Towing, and the Warren County Historical Society. The LM&M Railroad incorporates these and other local businesses into many of our events and provides free advertising for local businesses on our webpage (http://www.lebanonrr.com). New events are created every year that foster partnerships with community businesses with the goal of welcoming new visitors to the City of Lebanon.
Giving back to the community is vital to the LM&M Railroad. To date, the LM&M Railroad has provided sponsorship and/or funding to the following organizations: the Lebanon high school football team, the Lebanon high school choral group, the Lebanon high school cheerleading squads, PBS/Think TV, Mason Community Players, and Dayton Children’s Hospital. The LM&M Railroad has also been a sponsor of the City of Lebanon’s Feast and Fall-y Festival, along with participating regularly in Girls Night Out events.
Allowing the operating contract to expire would negatively affect the City of Lebanon in many ways, specifically economically. If the contract is not renewed, the impact to the City would include the loss of revenue generated by the LM&M Railroad, the visitors coming to the railroad’s events and spending money at other local establishments, and the support/advertising that the LM&M Railroad provides for other local businesses. Additionally, any and all support that the LM&M Railroad provides to community organizations would no longer exist. This is why it is vital that the operating contact between the City of Lebanon and the LM&M Railroad is renewed. The City and the LM&M Railroad have had a successful partnership and, for the sake of the train and for the City, this partnership must continue."

I wonder if what sounds like a "doom and gloom" situation in which is sounds like the "sky is falling" is nothing more than a political ploy to get funding?

This is a common technique and is used quite often --- consider for example how many school districts threaten to end high school sports if they don't get additional funding.

Bob H

The LM&M is is part of the Cincinnati Scenic Railway operation. It's a convoluted back story but basically when the lines making up the current I&O were sold off part of the agreement was that trackage rights for public excursion trains would be retained. The tracks the LM&M runs on are owned by the city, operated by the I&O and Cincinnati Scenic Railway has trackage rights to operate the LM&M tourist train. This operation also runs the Ohio Rail Experience excursions and provides equipment and crews for the popular Cincinnati Dinner Train.

I'm not sure how important the tourist railroad is to their overall portfolio, but this is an operation to keep an eye on. They are running some nice all day excursions over good track, open window cars, photo stops, etc. They just started that operation last year and it seems be be successful with lots of sold out trips. I'd love to see them bring in a steam locomotive for some of their excursions eventually. If you want mainline excursions on a big regional railroad, this is the organization working to make it happen.

I am wondering what the "other side" of the story is?

Pure conjecture on my part but being that the track is owned by a government agency they are probably required to advertise the operation in an open bid. Just the nature of the beast that these long term agreements can't be continually renewed forever without a bidding process. And it is unlikely the folks that put this together on the government side in 1985 are still in office.

By my reading it seems as if the RR and city are both working on finding funding for the needed track repairs, so it seems cooperative on the surface. Perhaps it could be qualified as "infrastructure" in the current bill...... best of luck to both of them.

Apparently the LM&M and the city are negotiating a new agreement (be warned that this article is somewhat painful to read due to its author's apparent lack of familiarity with railroads): https://www.daytondailynews.com/local/l ... max2K5xEm0

Thanks for posting this.

Can anyone tell me what this sentence in the article means?

"In addition, the gauge of the rail track will need to be updated in the future as the current track gauge is no longer manufactured. He said the estimated cost to replace the rail track is $575,000 per mile with a total cost of $3.2 million.""

Bob H

My guess is they mean the rail is worn out.

A quick "windshield tour" of the line using Google Streetview suggests that most of the line is exactly what you would expect on an ex-PRR low density line: Badly battered 100 PS rail, in two different drillings, and worn to the point where the wheel flanges are banging into the tops of the joint bars; a few scattered stretches of 85 ASCE rail; and a few very short stretches of heavier rail (likely 115 RE) at grade crossings. Generally, only the latter is deemed acceptable for today's 286K freight cars.

I don't know of anybody in the USA making 85 ASCE rail anymore. 100 PS has been obsolete and unavailable new for at least four or five decades.

What used to be called 100 ARA-B (redesigned and redesignated as "100-8") is rolled by both Cleveland Cliffs at the ex-Bethlehem mill at Steelton, PA, and by Steel Dynamics at Columbia City, IN. Section 100-8 rail is a standard for New York City Transit, who cannot use a taller rail in some tunnels on the former IRT lines. Since NYCT buys most of the 100 pound rail produced in the USA, they convinced the rail mills to redesign 100 ARA-B to have the same head profile as 115RE, their other standard rail section. I've had the good luck to get some nearly-new 100-8 for two recent projects at our museum.

/s/ Larry
Lawrence G. Lovejoy, P.E.

I think all they did was change the top of the 100RB from a 12" radius to an 8" radius to make the 100-8. Didn't know the genesis of that section until now. Thanks.

85 ASCE is a common size for mines. I can buy new 85 lb. track components so someone has to be rolling it, although it may be imported.