Railway Preservation News :: View topic - The Mystery of the GTW 6323B Tender

https://www.bytownrailwaysociety.ca/images/files/Preserved-QUE-NB-PE-NS-NL.pdf

Scroll to page 27. This should answer your questions.

It’s not strange for railroads including the GTW to use tenders in maintenance of way service after steam died. Several railroads did it for a variety of purposes, famously the UP saved the tenders off the big locomotives to provide fuel storage for the later turbines.

Even Vanderbilt tenders were used in this way. The B&O saved a couple of big six tenders for MOW purposes. I’m unsure if one or two of those are still lying around but I remember a discussion a few years ago about one.

Since the origin of 6323B has been found to be 6323’s original tender and 6323A to be a CNW 3000 class tender what is the one she has now on display?

The C&NW H-class 4-8-4s did not have Vanderbilt tenders.

Don C. wrote:

The C&NW H-class 4-8-4s did not have Vanderbilt tenders.

That's correct, but I think you misunderstood. There are two spare tenders at IRM, which these days are numbered 6323A and 6323B. Tender 6323A is off of a C&NW 4-8-4 and is not a Vanderbilt tender. Tender 6323B is evidently off of GTW 6323 and is indeed a Vanderbilt. Both can be seen here, ex-GTW 6323B on the left and ex-C&NW 6323A on the right:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=5181302

Author:	GTW Dude [ Fri Oct 01, 2021 11:01 am ]
Post subject:	The Mystery of the GTW 6323B Tender
heres a question ive decided to finally put to rest, as some of you may know IRM has an aux tender in their collection from a GTW U3a, U3B or U4B and reporting marks are RTJX 6323. Now you might think thats a nail in the coffin for Richard T Jensen but heres the thing Dick Jensen never owned the 6323 it was Fred Crew of Detroit. Now IIRC the aux tender used for 6325 at AOSR is former GTW 6315's so it can't be 6315 which leaves maybe 40 locomotives in question and it can't be a GTW 4-8-2 because the tender design is different and where crap hits the fan is looking at photos like this http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=5566035 it appears there is ANOTHER herald logo underneath the GTW one. Would this be from CN aquiring them on loan or could it be from an entirely different locomotive? my main question is which locomotive did the tender belong to? and how was it aquired? and why does it have so much conflicting info? it doesnt make sense to me that even if Dick Jensen did buy a GTW Vanderbilt MofW tender for excursions that he would buy it when he was struggling to get GTW 5629 and other locomotives back on the rails. On top of that, I have never heard of the GTW using a Vandy tender for MofW but i guess stranger things have happened and do know the DT&I did use a GTW Vanderbilt tender on MofW at one point.

Author:	Bob Milhaupt steamy [ Fri Oct 01, 2021 11:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: The Mystery of the GTW 6323B Tender
It is my understanding that it was not uncommon to move equipment under "borrowed" reporting marks. I would not be surprised to find that it was painted with his reporting marks for the move, or even that Mr. Jensen made the arrangements and used his reporting marks.

Author:	Steamguy73 [ Fri Oct 01, 2021 7:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Mystery of the GTW 6323B Tender
https://www.bytownrailwaysociety.ca/ima ... -NS-NL.pdf Scroll to page 27. This should answer your questions. It’s not strange for railroads including the GTW to use tenders in maintenance of way service after steam died. Several railroads did it for a variety of purposes, famously the UP saved the tenders off the big locomotives to provide fuel storage for the later turbines. Even Vanderbilt tenders were used in this way. The B&O saved a couple of big six tenders for MOW purposes. I’m unsure if one or two of those are still lying around but I remember a discussion a few years ago about one.

Author:	rwkpullman [ Fri Oct 01, 2021 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Mystery of the GTW 6323B Tender
Fred Crew died and his widow sold the 6323 to a member of IRM, Robert Johnson. It was stored in a roundhouse in D etroit before he shipped it to IRM. Bob was a very big GTW fan and saved a number of pieces that now protected and saved inside one of IRM' many storage barns. I am surprised none of you knew this information. Unfortunately, he pasted away after his equipment arrived at the museum. He was slowly in the process of restoring the engine. J David Conrad was a friend of his and might add more information. BTW I also knew Bob! He was quite knowledgeable about steam! Roger

Author:	GTW Dude [ Fri Oct 01, 2021 8:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Mystery of the GTW 6323B Tender
Wasn't Robert Johnson instrumental in having GTW 6323 under a roof at IRM and saving GTW 1951 and GTW Pullman Parlor car Melanie? im sorry to hear he passed before he could see the 6323 come to life or at least cosmetically. I would be interested in hearing more about this restoration that took place before he passed from what ive heard 6323 is in decent condition at least from what it looks like on the outside meaning he must have taken good care of the locomotive while he had her.

Railway Preservation News https://www.rypn.org/forums/

The Mystery of the GTW 6323B Tender https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45931	Page 1 of 2

Author:	GTW Dude [ Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Mystery of the GTW 6323B Tender
Steamguy73 wrote: https://www.bytownrailwaysociety.ca/images/files/Preserved-QUE-NB-PE-NS-NL.pdf Scroll to page 27. This should answer your questions. It’s not strange for railroads including the GTW to use tenders in maintenance of way service after steam died. Several railroads did it for a variety of purposes, famously the UP saved the tenders off the big locomotives to provide fuel storage for the later turbines. Even Vanderbilt tenders were used in this way. The B&O saved a couple of big six tenders for MOW purposes. I’m unsure if one or two of those are still lying around but I remember a discussion a few years ago about one. Thank you very much. It's interesting to think that at least some part of the CNW 3000 class lives on with the GTW U3B the CNW 3000's were good lookers. On another note, the website you have listed also lists GTW 8305's tender on there as being located in Le'clair Iowa. From what I have read in other threads on here it is believed that the tender had fallen apart in attempt to move it to Quincy IL or thought to have gone missing can anyone confirm? this would be huge break as to whats going on with 8305 ATM.

Author:	Steamguy73 [ Fri Oct 01, 2021 11:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Mystery of the GTW 6323B Tender
The CNW’s 4-8-4’s were certainly lookers. Add that to the candidates of “new builds” if you’d like (I’m just kidding).

Author:	GTW Dude [ Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Mystery of the GTW 6323B Tender
Since the origin of 6323B has been found to be 6323’s original tender and 6323A to be a CNW 3000 class tender what is the one she has now on display?

Author:	joe6167 [ Sat Oct 02, 2021 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Mystery of the GTW 6323B Tender
GTW Dude wrote: Since the origin of 6323B has been found to be 6323’s original tender and 6323A to be a CNW 3000 class tender what is the one she has now on display? And how did she end up loosing her original tender, for it to become a MOW car?

Author:	Don C. [ Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Mystery of the GTW 6323B Tender
The C&NW H-class 4-8-4s did not have Vanderbilt tenders. I was in the roundhouse and in 6323's cab in February 1969 after a failed GTW 5629 fan trip out of Detroit and I am sure the engine still had a Vanderbilt tender at the time. Does anyone have a photo of GTW 6323 with the alleged C&NW tender? I strongly doubt this story but will accept it if someone can provide a photo.

Author:	Frank Hicks [ Mon Oct 04, 2021 11:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Mystery of the GTW 6323B Tender
Don C. wrote: The C&NW H-class 4-8-4s did not have Vanderbilt tenders. That's correct, but I think you misunderstood. There are two spare tenders at IRM, which these days are numbered 6323A and 6323B. Tender 6323A is off of a C&NW 4-8-4 and is not a Vanderbilt tender. Tender 6323B is evidently off of GTW 6323 and is indeed a Vanderbilt. Both can be seen here, ex-GTW 6323B on the left and ex-C&NW 6323A on the right: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=5181302

Author:	joe6167 [ Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: The Mystery of the GTW 6323B Tender
Frank Hicks wrote: Don C. wrote: The C&NW H-class 4-8-4s did not have Vanderbilt tenders. That's correct, but I think you misunderstood. There are two spare tenders at IRM, which these days are numbered 6323A and 6323B. Tender 6323A is off of a C&NW 4-8-4 and is not a Vanderbilt tender. Tender 6323B is evidently off of GTW 6323 and is indeed a Vanderbilt. Both can be seen here, ex-GTW 6323B on the left and ex-C&NW 6323A on the right: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=5181302 So what Tender is 6323 mated with now? And how did she lose her original tender so that it was modified to an MOW car?

Author:	joe6167 [ Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:15 am ]
Post subject:	Re: The Mystery of the GTW 6323B Tender
Ok... I dragged out my photo archives... The tender connected to 6323 IS her real Tender (or at least a GTW U-3-b tender) That tender 6323B is NOT a GTW U-3-b Tender, which are quite distinct compared with other CNR Vanderbilt Tenders. It's a CNR Northern Tender, from one of the classes built from 1936-1943 (or possibly a CNR U-1-f Mountain or GTW U-4-b Northern tender). If someone could get detailed photos of it and look for any signs of any old stoker piping or the top deck, I might be able to narrow it down a little more.

Author:	GTW Dude [ Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Mystery of the GTW 6323B Tender
Here is what IRM's Website has to say: Grand Trunk Western 6323B Builder: American Locomotive Company Year Built: 1941 Length: 38ft 7in Width: 10ft 8in Height: 15ft 3in Weight: ??? lbs Brakes: AB Trucks: General Steel Casting 6 Wheel Description: Tender / Class U (Vanderbuilt) Since the Year is 1941 we can assume that the tender probably came from an Alco northern of some sort given that the U3B's were built in starting in 1942 during WW2 and the U4b's were built in 1938 by Lima IIRC.

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