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Fence or gate across ROW
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=46427		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  JCA [ Wed Mar 30, 2022 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Fence or gate across ROW
We are having issues with one of our neighbors who decided to construct a gate across our ROW without our permission. We have an easement across his land dating back to 1904. I am curious how any of you who have experienced this have handled it. We are a FRA regulated Class 1 Tourist Railroad, and use the track quite frequently, albeit only using speeders. Is there a standing Federal statute or ruling we can go to to use to our advantage? Thanks- JCA
Author:  cjvrr [ Wed Mar 30, 2022 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fence or gate across ROW
Have you spoken with the neighbor that installed the fence?

If he / she still persists in placing the fence, a letter from a lawyer requesting they remove the fence from your easement would be the next step.

Does the fence also prevent other trespassers from your property? Perhaps getting some keys for the lock would be a good compromise especially if only used by speeders.

Years ago a speeder group I belonged to had a similar issue and we were able to get keys for the gate. Opened and closed it each time we went through. Kept the 4 wheelers and motorcycle crowd off the tracks.
Author:  BnOTolSub [ Wed Mar 30, 2022 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fence or gate across ROW
Do you have a document regarding the easement? If not, you might want to try and find it. There is an easement that our line runs through that we can't quite seem to find a document about. We have obtained an old engineering/valuation map that shows the area, but we need more than that.
Author:  Ed Horan [ Wed Mar 30, 2022 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fence or gate across ROW
The RR I worked for went through this back in the 1970's. It really wasn't an issue until the RR needed to use track that had been dormant for at least a decade.

If you have Valuation maps for your line, each map page will list the deeds as they are filed with (in our case) the County government. They should be listed as they were filed way back then. It will probably take some time to dig them out, but the index references that are given on the Val. maps should be precise enough to lead whoever is trying to find them to the correct page without having to read through all the entries in a given deed book. The Clerk should be able to provide copies for you. There is the possibility of a fee being charged for the copies.

We had copies of the original deeds on hand. They were hand written and it took some time to figure out just what was written in those old agreements. It turned out that the easements were granted to the RR, and that the RR had to maintain their fence lines through the individual properties. That being said, my RR negotiated with the landowner to install the fences that crossed the track in such a way that the fence could be opened and closed without a lot hassle. This solved another problem. Most of the fence lines were long gone before I started working for the RR. The landowner could have asked the RR to start maintaining the fence lines as described in the deed. In most cases along my RR, this would have meant the expense of reconstructing fence lines in heavy brush and stone walls that were laid up after the RR was built. So, a compromise was worked out between the farm and the RR that everyone was satisfied with. The farmer kept his fence line across the track, and the RR agreed to to stop and open the fence as well as close it in return for not having to reconstruct the original fence line.

In our instance, the track opening was temporary, lasting about 3 years. If you're reopening your line for regular service again, a discussion with the person who put up the fence may be a good first step.
Author:  Kelly Anderson [ Wed Mar 30, 2022 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fence or gate across ROW
.
Author:  TrainDetainer [ Wed Mar 30, 2022 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fence or gate across ROW
Wow. A Class 1 tourist hauler. I didn't know any tourist RRs were over $250 million in revenue, or even close. You guys must carry a whole lot of customers on those motorcars - or charge space-tourist rates.
Author:  jayrod [ Wed Mar 30, 2022 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fence or gate across ROW
Questions:
What tourist road?
What state and county?
Approximate location of the gate.

A lot of county tax jurisdictions have gone to an online GIS (geographical information system) where you can click on a map and look up recent records - most don’t go back more than 20 years - and you can look up parcels and some railroad rights of way. Depends on how things are taxed and or recorded in your state. It may get you close to what you need from the county clerk. Some counties have links back to the older parcel maps that have been scanned if you’re lucky. Those usually show a succession of owners and may show the right of way. It might be a fruitless search online, though but it’s a quick and cheap start.
Author:  Frisco1522 [ Wed Mar 30, 2022 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fence or gate across ROW
Kelly Anderson wrote:
Nothing a Jordan spreader wouldn't fix...


Or a locomotive. Ridiculous.
Author:  Ed Kapuscinski [ Wed Mar 30, 2022 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fence or gate across ROW
Frisco1522 wrote:
Kelly Anderson wrote:
Nothing a Jordan spreader wouldn't fix...


Or a locomotive. Ridiculous.



I was thinking a loose car.

Or hell, a loose truck.

But then again, it's often better to have a pleasant conversation first.

At least they put a gate across the RoW instead of just a fence.
Author:  JCA [ Wed Mar 30, 2022 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fence or gate across ROW
TrainDetainer wrote:
Wow. A Class 1 tourist hauler. I didn't know any tourist RRs were over $250 million in revenue, or even close. You guys must carry a whole lot of customers on those motorcars - or charge space-tourist rates.


That's how the FRA refers to our operation. I assume it refers to the track.
JCA
Author:  jayrod [ Wed Mar 30, 2022 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fence or gate across ROW
JCA wrote:
TrainDetainer wrote:
Wow. A Class 1 tourist hauler. I didn't know any tourist RRs were over $250 million in revenue, or even close. You guys must carry a whole lot of customers on those motorcars - or charge space-tourist rates.


That's how the FRA refers to our operation. I assume it refers to the track.
JCA

That makes more sense.
Author:  SD70dude [ Wed Mar 30, 2022 5:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fence or gate across ROW
Are livestock involved? If that is the case perhaps installing a Texas gate on your track could be a permanent solution.
Author:  PMC [ Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fence or gate across ROW
jayrod wrote:
Questions:
What tourist road?
What state and county?
Approximate location of the gate.


Amador Central, California. That is all I am able to deduce.
Author:  jayrod [ Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fence or gate across ROW
I figured it out. Amador County GIS is almost useless due to lack of funding. Off the the county clerk you go….
Author:  Chris Webster [ Wed Mar 30, 2022 10:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fence or gate across ROW
Kelly Anderson wrote:
Nothing a Jordan spreader wouldn't fix...
Several years ago I was aboard a winter photo charter when the locomotive's snow plow took out a barbed wire fence that had been strung across the tracks.
Frisco1522 wrote:
Or a locomotive. Ridiculous.
My recollection is that we were delayed a bit because some of the barbed wire ended up in the drivers and rods.
SD70dude wrote:
Are livestock involved? If that is the case perhaps installing a Texas gate on your track could be a permanent solution.
Cattle guards don't work when they are covered up with heavy snow - that's why the rancher had strung his fence across the track directly above a cattle guard.
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