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does anyone know where SP AC chair cars 2445-2446 are?
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Author:  152696 [ Sat Apr 09, 2022 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:  does anyone know where SP AC chair cars 2445-2446 are?
I have found several articles on various sites that mention them slightly, but not don't specify where the cars are.
I have been searching the web for several months to find out where they are.

here are a few places people have said the might be the owner/location of the set


1) OERM/PAR(meaning they would have 2 AC pairs)
2) Wisconsin Great Northern(ex-CESX)(which would be strange for AC cars 2463-64
& 2455-56 are already listed as part of their collection)


so if you know where they are or who owns them, pls tell.


citations
1) https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/ ... 11,2312029
2)https://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr2773.htm



thx

152696
Author:  rusticmike6 [ Sun Apr 10, 2022 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: does anyone know where SP AC chair cars 2445-2446 are?
My research has 2445-2446 in Perris which would be Southern Cal Ry Mus, formerly klnown as OERM. 2473-2474 are at Brightside on the Niles Canyon Railroad. I haven't found 2455-2456 in any of my searches (FWIW).
Author:  Sparky418 [ Mon Apr 11, 2022 3:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: does anyone know where SP AC chair cars 2445-2446 are?
Cars #2467 and #2468 are at SCRM - they are located on the west side of Carbarn #7 with bare stainless steel siding, and with the bellows / diaphragm over the articulated truck removed. The interiors themselves are in somewhat good shape for outdoor storage. The Pacific Railroad Society is the owner of the set and they are erroneously listed on the website as "2445/2446".

The SCRM Collection Roster lists them as 2445 and 2446. Former California Western #683 as well.

SP 2397 (also owned by PRS) is also in the museum and stored inside Barn 7. There is also a PRS-owned EconoBag (#6796) which was recently restored / repainted and used as a generator car for special event trains.

SP lightweight combine #3320 is expected to arrive as part of transferring four pieces from PRS's collection in Commerce - its arrival is anticipated when the connection to the main line is built in advance of 5704's arrival.

There will be a chance to view all of these during the upcoming "Behind the Scenes" weekend on April 23rd and 24th.

(Edited to correct car numbers and reflect some info gleaned from TO while researching this)

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Author:  152696 [ Mon Apr 11, 2022 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: does anyone know where SP AC chair cars 2445-2446 are?
so to confirm, 2467-68 are scrapped?
Author:  rusticmike6 [ Mon Apr 11, 2022 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: does anyone know where SP AC chair cars 2445-2446 are?
I believe the ECONO is 6796
Author:  Sparky418 [ Tue Apr 12, 2022 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: does anyone know where SP AC chair cars 2445-2446 are?
rusticmike6 wrote:
I believe the ECONO is 6796


Thanks, corrected.

152696 wrote:
so to confirm, 2467-68 are scrapped?


Not sure. 2445-46 are the only articulated car I'm aware of at the museum. It could be 2467-68 and erroneously listed on the website. (Edit: this appears to be true, the photos dating back to the Benson, AZ move show they are 2467-68).

EDIT: Per Don's Depot, 2445-46 aren't the ones at SCRM. They went to Yreka Western first, then to the Grand Traverse Dinner Train, and now are in Missouri, cars 300A-300B on the Columbia Star Dinner Train (CESX) which was discontinued in 2014. This was operated by the COLT


Image
(Photo credit: Tom Binger, RR Picture Archives)

The CESX rostered two articulated sets (#100A/B and #300A/B) and ran them in a 5-car set bracketing an ex-CB&Q kitchen car, with a pair of F7As on either end. Of note is both locomotives (#1950 and #1951) operated on the Seattle North Coast. The rolling stock from it is now at Wisconsin Great Northern in Trego, WI.

300A/B was renamed "Copper Falls" & "Morgan Falls" and carries its CESX / COLT numbers. Additionally 100A/B are the "Amnicon Falls" & "Manitou Falls". Both retain their dining car setups from the Grand Traverse / Columbia operations.
Author:  Sparky418 [ Wed Apr 13, 2022 1:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: does anyone know where SP AC chair cars 2445-2446 are?
So to sum up then:

SP 2445/46: SP --> Amtrak --> Yreka Western Railway --> Traverse City --> COLT / CESX #300A/B --> Wisconsin Great Northern, Operable.
SP 2463/64: SP --> Amtrak --> ???? --> Traverse City --> COLT / CESX #100A/B --> Wisconsin Great Northern, Operable.
SP 2467/68: SP --> ??? --> California Western (#683) --> unknown owner in Benson, AZ --> PRS circa 2006 --> Stored at SCRM, retrucked 2012, unrestored.

Gaps are 2463/64 between Amtrak and Traverse City, and 2467/68 between SP and California Western.

Additionally the owner in Benson, AZ is not known. Are they perhaps the same railroad where SP IC-72-1 #2144 and DLW Hi-Roof EMU #2350 came from in the late 1990s / early 2000s?
Author:  ctjacks [ Wed Apr 13, 2022 9:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: does anyone know where SP AC chair cars 2445-2446 are?
A small correction: SP 2445/46 went to Grand Traverse in Traverse City, MI - not to Grand Rapids. I don't recall them ever going to Grand Rapids. There was an operation in Grand Rapids that used equipment now part of the UP excursion fleet, but I don't think they ever had these ex-SP cars.
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Wed Apr 13, 2022 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: does anyone know where SP AC chair cars 2445-2446 are?
Sparky418 wrote:
SP 2467/68: SP --> ??? --> California Western (#683) --> unknown owner in Benson, AZ --> PRS circa 2006 --> Stored at SCRM, retrucked 2012, unrestored.

Additionally the owner in Benson, AZ is not known. Are they perhaps the same railroad where SP IC-72-1 #2144 and DLW Hi-Roof EMU #2350 came from in the late 1990s / early 2000s?


The operator in Benson was the rather-short-lived excursion operation on the San Pedro & Southwestern, now the San Pedro Valley to a nitrogen plant at nearby St. Davids. I have a photo of the pair on a train there, but to be honest I have virtually no background on how the operation originated, its operational background, etc., and a great deal of the scenic trackage the train formerly operated on from Benson to Fairbank and Charleston has now been lifted.
Author:  CaliforniaSteamin [ Wed Apr 13, 2022 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: does anyone know where SP AC chair cars 2445-2446 are?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a second ex-California Western articulated coach on the San Pedro and Southwestern? (See second post on https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,1949276)

This one retained its corrugated sides - anyone know of its disposition?

- Justin
Author:  Sparky418 [ Thu Apr 14, 2022 1:55 am ]
Post subject:  Digression: GTDT Ownership and the SP&SW Excursions
ctjacks wrote:
A small correction: SP 2445/46 went to Grand Traverse in Traverse City, MI - not to Grand Rapids. I don't recall them ever going to Grand Rapids. There was an operation in Grand Rapids that used equipment now part of the UP excursion fleet, but I don't think they ever had these ex-SP cars.


Thanks, updated my prior post. Got confused by the "The Grand Traverse" moniker used for the service.

Image

Somewhat unrelated but the two-toned blue "base" used is evocative of the Florida Fun Train (granted, with more stately lines and less neon). Was the Grand Traverse owned or operated by the same company which operated the FFT, or was it related to the local railroad (TSBY)?

Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Sparky418 wrote:
SP 2467/68: SP --> ??? --> California Western (#683) --> unknown owner in Benson, AZ --> PRS circa 2006 --> Stored at SCRM, retrucked 2012, unrestored.

Additionally the owner in Benson, AZ is not known. Are they perhaps the same railroad where SP IC-72-1 #2144 and DLW Hi-Roof EMU #2350 came from in the late 1990s / early 2000s?


The operator in Benson was the rather-short-lived excursion operation on the San Pedro & Southwestern, now the San Pedro Valley to a nitrogen plant at nearby St. Davids. I have a photo of the pair on a train there, but to be honest I have virtually no background on how the operation originated, its operational background, etc., and a great deal of the scenic trackage the train formerly operated on from Benson to Fairbank and Charleston has now been lifted.


Thanks! I found some photos online when I searched it up, though I couldn't ascertain any car numbers. For reference, here's a picture of the consist circa 1995. I can see two articulated cars and an Archroof of some sort, although I can't discern the consist beyond the second articulated.

Image
(Credits: WLindley, Wikimedia).

Unrelated but in the first post of mine in this thread listed a roster of SP lightweights at or headed to SCRM. Thanks to some of the links in this thread, the combine we are slated to receive from the Pacific Rail Society is SP #3320.

This joins a TTX flat car, a UP CA-11 baywindow, and Santa Fe DC191 (a single-end RDC which with DC192 was involved in the 1956 Redondo Jct. derailment). This equipment is slated to arrive about the same time as AT&SF #5704 and SP / F&W 4009.
Author:  152696 [ Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: does anyone know where SP AC chair cars 2445-2446 are?
just found a scource saying that the CESX cars are SP 2455-2456, and 2463-2464

what happened to 55-56?

http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=39225&p=246530&hilit=algoma+central#p246530
Author:  Tamranger [ Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: does anyone know where SP AC chair cars 2445-2446 are?
Sounds like they’ve been scrapped. https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/ ... ?4,3071688

http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr0601/yw2445.jpg
Author:  Rainier Rails [ Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: does anyone know where SP AC chair cars 2445-2446 are?
Let me see if I can clarify all of this a little bit more. In my notes, I had the following:

T&NO #504-#505 is the 2nd pair now at the Wisconsin Great Northern, Spooner, WI, not the #2445-#2446.

T&NO #504/#505 transferred to SP in 1955 as #2456-#2455 sold to Amtrak in 1973 as #7524-#7523, retired in 1977, then resold and spent time at both California Western and Yreka Western, later resold to Grand Traverse, then resold to Columbia Star, now at WGN, #300A-B. (I do not know if the #300A-B was applied while in MI or IA.)

SP #2445-#2446 did not go to Amtrak, this pair was off of the roster in 1968 and sold, spent time at both California Western and Yreka Western, later moved to the San Pedro & Southwestern, which I understand was another KYLE property like the CW and YW, hence the move. So it appears that the reports from 2013 indicating this pair was scrapped would be correct.

SP #2463-#2464 sold to Amtrak in 1973 as #7528-#7529, retired in 1977, then resold and spent time on the Yreka Western (not sure about the CA Western), later resold to Grand Traverse, then resold to Columbia Star, now at WGN, #100A-B. (I do not know if the #100A-B was applied while in MI or IA.)

SP #2467-#2468 sold to Amtrak in 1973 as #7530-#7531, retired in 1977, then resold and spent time at both Yreka Western and California Western, then later moved to the SP&SW, later resold to Pacific RR Society (PAR), later moved to OERM, now SCRRM.

SP #2473-#2474 sold to Algoma Central in 1974 as #458-#459, resold in 1988 to Bytown RY Society, resold in 1996 to Golden Gate RR Museum, later resold from GGRM to Pacific Locomotive Association d.b.a. Niles Canyon RY.

There are two other pairs known to still exist:

SP #2416-#2417 sold to Amtrak in 1973 as #7521-#7522, retired in 1977 and resold to Boquet (Rancho Maria/Sable) Movie Ranch, Newhall (Saugus), CA. This pair is reported to be still on-site with several other cars that the ranch acquired way back when from Amtrak, latest information confirms this as of back in January of this year: https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,5393758

Older threads:

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,3349149

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,4163499

T&NO #502-#503 transferred to SP in 1954 as #2498-#2499 sold to Algoma Central in 1974 as #452-#453, later resold to Doyle McCormack-Friends of the #4449-Daylight Locomotive & Machine Works (DLMX), located not in Portland but in Montana, damaged in a runaway accident at an unknown date, later resold to Montana Rail Link as MRL #102A-B.

Algoma Central acquired a total of 6 pairs, the whereabouts of the other 4 pairs, if they are even still extant, are unknown (at least 3 of the other 4 pairs were used by AC in MofW service).
Author:  CJCheely [ Mon Dec 12, 2022 4:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: does anyone know where SP AC chair cars 2445-2446 are?
I worked for SPSW and can confirm that SP #2445-#2446 where scraped in the early 2010's

I number groups tryed to save them but all had the same issues the car couldn't be shipped by rail on there own wheel and the high cost of shipping by other means .
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