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TSA will no longer enforce travel mask mandate
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=46479		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Bartman-TN [ Mon Apr 18, 2022 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:  TSA will no longer enforce travel mask mandate
TSA will no longer enforce travel mask mandate after a federal judge strikes it down

https://www.kbia.org/2022-04-18/tsa-wil ... es-it-down
Author:  buzz_morris [ Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TSA will no longer enforce travel mask mandate
Thank God I can again get packed into a 737 with 175 unmasked strangers.
Free at last .. Free at last......
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TSA will no longer enforce travel mask mandate
https://money.yahoo.com/federal-judge-s ... 50035.html

Quote:
From the court: “It is indisputable that the public has a strong interest in combating the spread of Covid-19. In pursuit of that end, the CDC issued the mask mandate. But the mandate exceeded the CDC statutory authority, improperly invoked the good clause exemption to notice and comment rulemaking and failed to adequately explain its decisions. Because our system does not permit agencies to act unlawfully even in the pursuit of desirable ends, the court declares unlawful and vacates the mask mandate.”

Emphasis added.

buzz_morris wrote:
Thank God I can again get packed into a 737 with 175 unmasked strangers.
Free at last .. Free at last......

Review actual data.

https://www.city-journal.org/the-failed ... k-mandates
Author:  Christopher Stone [ Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: TSA will no longer enforce travel mask mandate
At least they never forced us to do something crazy, like wash our hands after sneezing.
Author:  JCA [ Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: TSA will no longer enforce travel mask mandate
Don't worry, plenty of ventilators are waiting in the wings...
Author:  PCook [ Tue Apr 19, 2022 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TSA will no longer enforce travel mask mandate
The people who believe in the value of masks are completely free to continue wearing them for as long as they want, in any situation where they think the mask is needed. If the masks are effective, then they should protect them. And if they are not effective, then the entire debate was just a waste of time and energy.

PC
Author:  R. Hahn [ Tue Apr 19, 2022 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TSA will no longer enforce travel mask mandate
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Review actual data.

https://www.city-journal.org/the-failed ... k-mandates


And all these years doctors have been wearing masks during operations to prevent infecting patients. You would think with all the years of medical training they would be better informed than the editor of a right wing website.

Roger
Author:  R. Hahn [ Tue Apr 19, 2022 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TSA will no longer enforce travel mask mandate
PCook wrote:
The people who believe in the value of masks are completely free to continue wearing them for as long as they want, in any situation where they think the mask is needed. If the masks are effective, then they should protect them. And if they are not effective, then the entire debate was just a waste of time and energy.

PC


Over two years into this and people still do not realize masks are far more effective if the infected person is wearing it rather than the person trying not to be infected?

Roger
Author:  Bartman-TN [ Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TSA will no longer enforce travel mask mandate
Quote:
And all these years doctors have been wearing masks during operations to prevent infecting patients. You would think with all the years of medical training they would be better informed than the editor of a right wing website.


Yes, but surgical doctors are wearing special masks designed for the purpose. They don't wear the cheap cloth or paper masks that most non-doctors are wearing. Read the research on the masks being used - most cloth masks are less than 5% effective, and some of the paper ones are basically 0% effect. And where did these numbers come from? Doctors at major hospitals and government health care facilities around the world. They know the difference between the surgical masks and a piece of cloth.

And, oh wait, the CDC has not performed or funded a study on paper or cloth masks for Covid, so they don't really know what the actual results are. That is why no hard science has been presented by the CDC on the matter. If they had it, why didn't they present it in the court case and elsewhere?

Quote:
Over two years into this and people still do not realize masks are far more effective if the infected person is wearing it rather than the person trying not to be infected?


Why? If it filters all outbound germs, then doesn't it also filter all inbound germs? Or are the masks made for only one way filtering - but that can't be, you can breath! The specialized surgical masks do filter on exhale and allow inbound air through the ports when inhaling, but the paper and cloth masks are simply a sheet of material that works equally both ways.

If there is plenty of evidence that masks are needed and effective, all the administration has to do is show it, go through the regulatory process, and bring the masks back. The fact that they haven't done so, and their legal advisors told them to not fight the results, should be some evidence on the matter.


I'm going to use the statement that some of the pro-mask people have been using for the past year: you must comply with the law (it wasn't a law, it was an unconstitutional rule) or don't fly, ride a train, etc! If you don't like it, you can stay at home.
Author:  PCook [ Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TSA will no longer enforce travel mask mandate
In my area there was no posting evident of any rules defining acceptable mask type, or quality, effectively allowing nearly any piece of cloth to meet the definition of a mask. There were also no published warnings regarding flapper valves, which pass the exhaled air out of the mask without requiring filtration.

PC
Author:  R. Hahn [ Tue Apr 19, 2022 6:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TSA will no longer enforce travel mask mandate
Bartman-TN wrote:
Yes, but surgical doctors are wearing special masks designed for the purpose. They don't wear the cheap cloth or paper masks that most non-doctors are wearing.


Try googling "surgical mask". Kind of looks like the cheap paper ones you say are almost useless.

Quote:
Read the research on the masks being used - most cloth masks are less than 5% effective, and some of the paper ones are basically 0% effect. And where did these numbers come from? Doctors at major hospitals and government health care facilities around the world. They know the difference between the surgical masks and a piece of cloth.

And, oh wait, the CDC has not performed or funded a study on paper or cloth masks for Covid, so they don't really know what the actual results are. That is why no hard science has been presented by the CDC on the matter. If they had it, why didn't they present it in the court case and elsewhere?


Is this the study of face masks that you say the CDC didn't perform? https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7106e1.htm
It has slightly different numbers for mask effectiveness than you quote.
Image

Quote:
Over two years into this and people still do not realize masks are far more effective if the infected person is wearing it rather than the person trying not to be infected?


Quote:
Why? If it filters all outbound germs, then doesn't it also filter all inbound germs?


So now you are are saying masks filter all germs? You should make up your mind if they are between 0-5% or 100% effective.

Either way, doesn't make sense that containing something at the source is going to work better than trying to stop it after that fact?
Author:  Jeffrey Fefferlyn [ Tue Apr 19, 2022 6:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TSA will no longer enforce travel mask mandate
JCA wrote:
Don't worry, plenty of ventilators are waiting in the wings...


You want people to perish simply for not being forced to do what you want them to do? That’s classy.

FYI you can disagree with a decision without wishing death or ill will towards those sharing a common interest. If this thread does nothing else, at least it exposes the true moral compass of those who frequent it.

And to think…we used to come here to talk about trains.
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TSA will no longer enforce travel mask mandate
R. Hahn wrote:
Quote:
Why? If it filters all outbound germs, then doesn't it also filter all inbound germs?


So now you are are saying masks filter all germs? You should make up your mind if they are between 0-5% or 100% effective.

To highlight the community ignorance of the discussion here:

The Wuhan/COVID-19 wee beastie is a VIRUS and not just "germs."

We return you to your mass hysteria........
Author:  R. Hahn [ Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TSA will no longer enforce travel mask mandate
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
The Wuhan/COVID-19 wee beastie is a VIRUS and not germs.

We return you to your mass hysteria........


Per Merriam-Webster a germ is “a microorganism causing disease : a pathogenic agent (such as a bacterium or virus)”

Talk about misinformation.
Author:  superheater [ Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TSA will no longer enforce travel mask mandate
R. Hahn wrote:
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Review actual data.

https://www.city-journal.org/the-failed ... k-mandates


And all these years doctors have been wearing masks during operations to prevent infecting patients. You would think with all the years of medical training they would be better informed than the editor of a right wing website.

Roger


The illogic inherent in this poster's comments is ASTOUNDING, even by recent standards
and I'm not even counting the argumentum ad hominem in my assessment of the defectiveness of reasoning exhibited here.

Doctors didn't and don't wear masks everywhere, surgeons wore masks while facing open incisions.

And why they wear them is important. They wear them so as to minimize the possibility of introducing infection. Baby blue polyester surgical masks will help, but not guarantee the prevention of inadvertently introduced sweat, saliva, nasal mucous and hair. They do not stop the transmission of all bacteria, and would not stop viral infection-which is why the damn box states that limitation. Despite the care taken, there is always the chance of iatrogenic illness.

My wife is an RN who has been attending to COVID patients since the damn bug was loosed upon us. In a prior life, she worked in a virology lab and that helps her safety consciousness in this environment.

She doesn't enter the room of a C19 patient wearing a silly blue surgical mask or a filthy rag that presents the possibility of cross-contamination, but a properly worn N95. She is annually "fit-tested" (two of the three brands her hospital utilizes do not conform to the contours of her face and if the remaining one no longer does at some point, she will not treat people with contagious conditions). In addition, she is trained on how to wear her N95, and wears a face shield to prevent ocular infection. In addition, she dawns full body, single use PPE.

If you want to engage in ritualistic behavior, have at it. The rest of us understand that your talisman neither prevents infection or transmission, and that this is not a risk free world. You ARE going to die, and most likely not at a time or cause of your choosing. Unless you are incredibly lucky, you'll probably be sick before the eternal dirt nap.

But dammit, don't screw around. Get the full monte.

https://www.nimrodswares.com/mil-surplu ... loves-bag/

Every action has consequences. For decades we were told that we need to avoid the sun or trowel on SPF. Funny thing, while baking in the sun IS bad, failing to get enough sun is also bad, and insufficient Vitamin D is associated with a variety of conditions such as cancer, diabetes and MS. Insufficient/deficient Vitamin D is also associated with COVID severity. There are consequences to wearing masks, especially while engaged in physical exertion, something doctors are not doing in the OR.

https://health.ucdavis.edu/news/headlin ... 19/2022/02

Look, I get it. As much as I find the idea that political sentiments have a single dimension and can be plotted on a horizontal line noxiously simplistic, I do think that on binary issues, people adhere to one of two tribes and those affiliations tend to occupy opposite sides of a multitude of issues.

What I've observed over the years is that those that call themselves "leftists" emote, they don't reason (which is why the best determinant of the the leftward affiliation of an interlocutor in a discussion of policy is when they begin a statement with "I feel". I suspect the energization of the left to beat the dead horse is because there was a rush of emotion in the fear and and uncertainty of two years ago, and they can't give up the dopamine rush.
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