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Steamtown to resume excursions this year
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=46510		 Page 1 of 6
Author:  NJDixon [ Thu Apr 28, 2022 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Steamtown to resume excursions this year
At the risk of touching off the tinderbox that is any Steamtown discussion, I noticed that Steamtown is resuming excursions for the first time since 2019 this year. This includes both the Scranton Limited yard hops and longer trips to Cresco/Tobyhanna/Gouldsboro/etc.

https://www.nps.gov/stea/planyourvisit/trainrides.htm
Author:  rem1028 [ Thu Apr 28, 2022 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steamtown to resume excursions this year
This is somewhat good news. It would have been helpful if they specified somewhere at least when they planned to operate # 26. Operations are supposed to resume on May 14th, I believe, but inquiries on their Facebook as to whether they plan to operate 26 that day were answered, "We plan to operate both steam and diesel excursions this season". When asked for a more specific answer, they gave the same response. It's understandable that steam operations can be unpredictable, and things can go wrong, but how hard would it be to give the usual disclaimer that motive power can be substituted if need be? They also have been totally mum on any progress on 3713. I am very skeptical as to whether it will ever run under the current management.

John
Author:  Steamguy73 [ Thu Apr 28, 2022 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steamtown to resume excursions this year
I’ve got two answers about some of this

1. The 3713’s progress seems to be ongoing but they don’t really update their socials that often anymore, which is unfortunate, but there’s not much from the outside indicating progress hasn’t been moving forward, even if that said progress is slow.

2. There’s no planned trains to Moscow this year because apparently the depot is undergoing work this year. I could imagine the shorter “Nay Aug” excursions that 26 usually runs would be announced at a later date.
Author:  NJDixon [ Thu Apr 28, 2022 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steamtown to resume excursions this year
I know #3713 made a flurry of progress in the early part of the pandemic. Also, around May last year, the L&WV folks were shut out of the shop for a while because the work agreement between them and Steamtown expired and needed to be resubmitted or renegotiated or whatever, and, like everything else these days, that took longer than expected.
Author:  rem1028 [ Thu Apr 28, 2022 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steamtown to resume excursions this year
Is there a new agreement in place now?

John
Author:  Scranton Yard [ Wed May 04, 2022 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steamtown to resume excursions this year
NJDixon- Thanks for the link. I find this very encouraging because a thorough read shows that the Park Service is endeavoring to work with community partners to make the excursions more enjoyable and attractive to riders and to bring more economic benefit to destination host communities.

The other interesting thing is that it appears that Railfest will be the weekend of June 11/12 this year as evidenced by the "Gouldsboro: Special Railfest Excursion" listed for the 12th. I'm wondering if the Park Service did this to avoid attempting to compete with the running of 2102 on RBMN on Labor Day weekend. If so, have to give them credit for properly assessing that any event at STEA would not be as strong of a draw as the wonderful spectacle that awaits us in Jim Thorpe.

My apologies in advance to anyone offended by my use of a pseudonym.
Author:  jrevans [ Wed May 04, 2022 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steamtown to resume excursions this year
rem1028 wrote:
Is there a new agreement in place now?

John

I'm not sure, but there was this update posted on the 3713 website in Feb 2022:
http://www.project3713.com/2022/02/03/p ... uary-2022/
Author:  co614 [ Wed May 04, 2022 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steamtown to resume excursions this year
Thanks for that link. as of the early Feb. posting of that update there was no new agreement yet worked out. Hopefully one will be eventually so at least supporters under the age of 30 have some chance of seeing it boil water.

Ross Rowland
Author:  mcgrath618 [ Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Steamtown to resume excursions this year
The rumor mill is alleging that Steamtown staff are currently ultrasonic testing one of their CN Mikados (likely 3377).
Author:  NJDixon [ Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steamtown to resume excursions this year
mcgrath618 wrote:
The rumor mill is alleging that Steamtown staff are currently ultrasonic testing one of their CN Mikados (likely 3377).


As I recall, that was the eventual plan, because #3377's boiler and running gear were allegedly in excellent shape. Rumor was that it had been overhauled by CN shortly before retirement and had something like 5000 miles on the overhaul. It also doesn't have the jacked-up frame of the #3254.

But, correct me if I'm wrong, wouldn't it make more sense to work on #2317 first? They had just done a bunch of work to the running gear shortly before they parked it and has mostly been tucked away in the roundhouse. It seems that getting the #2317 back in service would be quicker and easier than swapping everything back over from #3254 to #3377 and then undoing whatever deterioration #3377 has experienced from sitting outdoors.
Author:  rem1028 [ Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steamtown to resume excursions this year
While I'm happy to see work being done on any locomotive at Steamtown, to me the main focus should be finishing up 3713 first, since it's already taken as long as it has.

John
Author:  Ed Kapuscinski [ Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Steamtown to resume excursions this year
Image
Author:  mcgrath618 [ Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Steamtown to resume excursions this year
NJDixon wrote:
mcgrath618 wrote:
The rumor mill is alleging that Steamtown staff are currently ultrasonic testing one of their CN Mikados (likely 3377).


As I recall, that was the eventual plan, because #3377's boiler and running gear were allegedly in excellent shape. Rumor was that it had been overhauled by CN shortly before retirement and had something like 5000 miles on the overhaul. It also doesn't have the jacked-up frame of the #3254.

But, correct me if I'm wrong, wouldn't it make more sense to work on #2317 first? They had just done a bunch of work to the running gear shortly before they parked it and has mostly been tucked away in the roundhouse. It seems that getting the #2317 back in service would be quicker and easier than swapping everything back over from #3254 to #3377 and then undoing whatever deterioration #3377 has experienced from sitting outdoors.

If I had to speculate (the rumors only said that it was "a mikado"), I would posit that 3377 is the best candidate because of the knowledge still retained from 3254. They're the same class of locomotive and I'm sure whatever parts on the latter that aren't in horrid condition can be either used on 3377 or be used to replicate such parts.

Regarding 3713, I assume that the idea is that they'll start on 3377 as soon as 3713 is finished. It's helpful to know what you'll be doing after you finish a big project (though I wonder how full their hands will be with maintaining 3713 and the Baldwin).

Then again, this is all speculation. They could just be evaluating future candidates, and we could hear in another week that their NKP Berk is being ultrasonic tested.

I personally think that there are better fits for Steamtown's operations than 3377, but I am happy to see a larger locomotive of their collection be restored regardless.
Author:  Dave [ Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steamtown to resume excursions this year
UT testing is a means of gathering information which can be a part of the decision making process about a future restoration, or perhaps just as documentation. I would not consider it a promise of future activity. I'd be just as happy to know that there's work afoot to simply well document the condition of their entire collection.
Author:  superheater [ Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steamtown to resume excursions this year
"Resuming excursions" needs to be qualified:

Sixteen trips, with about a dozen going East is a return, it's a shadow of what was and too anemic for long term needs.

This schedule while perhaps dictated by the necessity to put a big toe in the water rather than cannonball dive after a long layoff, is barely adequate enough to get the existing crews reacclimated. It certainly precludes the training and development of a substantial corps of new crew-and that is an absolute necessity when the overwhelming number of your operating crews are over age 60-producing a "mass superannuation risk" to organizational continuity.

I was reminded of how quickly that can happen when I received a legacy.com notice about the anniversary of Bernie O'Brien's passing. In short order over a period of years, Steamtown lost its core of road qualified engineers. (O'Brien, Corwin, Patterson and Shore). This year will mark ten years since the last road steam.

The necessity of additional reps was recognized by the former Maintenance Div. Chief Jessica Weinman-I was among the beneficiaries of those trips in 2018. The loss of two years of operation exacerbated an existing problem.

Not only is there a lot of grey and Ben-Gay in the operating crews, the three most senior people on the mechanical roster-the ones that remember what it's like to have a day when two steam locomotives are running and need their usual TLC are, or soon will be leaving for retirement.

From Zerohedge.com: "On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero".

While it's unreasonable to expect anywhere near the almost 200 excursions that were featured until about 20 years ago, because there's now competition in the form of the Reading and Northern, now offering premium coaches, a big 4-8-4 and a destination that has no equivalent on Steamtown accessible lines, the less than 20 present slate really isn't enough for crew training and development, when you are facing a mass exodus that becomes more and more certain given the passage of time.

Because Steamtown is a little like Hotel California "you can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave", I know that there were less than 150 riders on the trip to Gouldsboro. We used to call that level of ridership a really bad day. This is after almost three years without trips "up the hill" and as a part of the attenuated Railfest offering, even though there's no longer visiting equipment. There should have been "pent up demand", even without the special event.

Given the price of gas and inflation expectations, I expect the ridership for the rest of the year to be just as anemic.

As an aside, while the 3713 is an interesting locomotive, it's probably the wrong pick for a line with near 2% grades and operating speeds that are unlikely to be 30mph or above, but I understand that's the horse in the race now.
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