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| new preservation group https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=46545 |
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| Author: | steamfan765 [ Sat May 07, 2022 10:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | new preservation group |
I have been planning and thinking about this for over a year and I love steam. I have been considering of starting a new steam preservation group since I live in NE Ohio I call it the Northeast Ohio Steam Train Organization or NEOSTO the original idea is to build a new Erie K2-A pacific but now the idea is to restore and operate an existing steam locomotive. I have had a long with talk with the MRPS in Cleveland about 2 years ago to where the group can restore and house the locomotive after fixing up a couple of stalls and he said yes if I decided to go for it and have conference with the MRPS board members I'm sure they wouldn't have a problem with it. where the loco will run well you need the product first before you can market it out. I don't have all the details worked out yet but first things first right? I choose candidates that make sense on terms of size and weight and horsepower. Those details determines the cost of maintenance and insurance. The locomotive will have PTC installed, have roller bearings installed if it doesn't have any. the locomotive will be converted to burn waste vegetable oil because it's more sustainable, burns cleanly which will make it easier to clean, and since I was in food service industry I know where to get suppliers. I don't know if I want to go for it or not because of well you know time and money. Plus I don't have experience in restoring steam locomotives but it's a learn as you go type thing isn't it? the first candidate for that I'm interested in NKP 170 because it's light, mainline worthy, it's a super power design, it has roller bearings on all axles, and it's a hudson. Second one - N&W 578 Third one - EJ&E 2-8-2 765 I don't know what is the condition of these locomotives but I wonder does anyone know? |
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| Author: | RailMech3 [ Sat May 07, 2022 11:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: new preservation group |
Ambition is a great start! I think there is definitely more research to be done on your side. But you have potentially come to the right place. This forum is full of people who know a lot of things on steam locomotives. A first few good things to start with…. Find someone who is a reputable boiler maker. Google names, use the RYPN search tools, etc. search names or those involved, company names and all. Next, you’ll need to find or rent tools. A boiler maker may be able to work with you on this. However it is not all up to the boiler. Yes it is the heartbeat of the locomotives, but it needs good working bones. Running gear, frame work, etc all need gone through. It can be a costly undertaking. There’s been plenty of groups that have proven that with the correct people involved, you can find the money. It doesn’t matter what YOU know, it matters what the people you surround yourself know. You could be an expert on everything. If you can’t manage, train, and find people worth a shit, your organization wont be very successful. Even if you don’t know the basics, find those that do know everything. You build it, and they will come. This hobby has parts and pieces that every walk of life can relate to, and add to. A computer programmer can be very useful, just as a welder can be. Don’t be afraid of trying. Just do your research on who you surround yourself with. And lastly, don’t be afraid of greatness. |
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| Author: | steamfan765 [ Sat May 07, 2022 11:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: new preservation group |
I have done some research like boiler makers and all that but like I said time and money is what's keeping me from going of it. |
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| Author: | Dave [ Sat May 07, 2022 12:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: new preservation group |
No, you need to define the product based on the market - which is first defined by looking for something that is missing but which people will pay more than it costs to provide if you provide it. Once that missing link and the market for it is defined and proven to be likely to succeed under certain critical conditions, that information is used to design the product. No point producing a mainline speed queen if conditions don't support its success in sustaining its operating and restoration and next restoration costs, only to have that investment languish inside a roundhouse stall. If you can't write a supportable business plan, don't do it. So, your first need is for marketing and entrepreneural expertise, not welders and machinists. BTW, IF your research shows a local smaller scheduled operation is marketable, there's the most technologically advanced version of a road / switcher 0-6-0 tender from the W&LE in Lorain you might want to have a look at. |
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| Author: | steamfan765 [ Sat May 07, 2022 12:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: new preservation group |
I didn't say that I had all the details worked out nor even decided to even do it yet |
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| Author: | QJdriver [ Sat May 07, 2022 2:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: new preservation group |
If you've never been involved with a steam restoration project before, I would respectfully offer that starting one yourself under those circumstances is often a very rough and rocky road. My suggestion would be that you visit the group in Akron which is well along to restoring a Reading 4-8-4, and that you could learn a lot and meet some good folks by volunteering with them for a while. Their president is a good boilermaker, and a real nice fella, name of Rob Gardner. He's a member of this group, so he shouldn't be too hard to find. Best of Luck to You. |
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| Author: | Richard Glueck [ Sat May 07, 2022 2:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: new preservation group |
I suspect we've exchanged here in the past. Aren't you the same individual who went bouncing off the wall about building a Y6b from scratch? You have proposed an interesting list of locomotives to take on and rebuild for operation. Does the museum which owns NKP 170 know anything about your plans? Have they agreed to it? Did they initiate these plans? There are plenty of steam restoration projects needing an assist and they are already working to get their projects "over the hump". QJ Driver gave some excellent advice. You need to get dirty with ash, grease, sweat, and the occasional blood, on another project before you propose something so sweeping and "grand". |
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| Author: | steamfan765 [ Sat May 07, 2022 3:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: new preservation group |
no I'm not the one who wanted to build a new Y6b from scratch. actually I am asking does anyone know the condition of these locomotives before I get into the nitty and gritty of things. This is just a thought process do some research first before planing everything and go for it. Like I said time and money keeps me from going for it. I actually wanted to build a Erie K2-A pacific awhile back B&A 2-8-4 now I'm not |
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| Author: | Ron Goldfeder [ Sat May 07, 2022 3:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: new preservation group |
I worked at what is now the National Museum of Transportation, owner of NKP 4-6-4 #170, and can tell you that others have approached the museum trying to get it out for operational restoration in the past. The museum has, and in my view quite properly, tuned all these down. None were willing to even discuss putting a large amount of money in escrow to put it back together in case their efforts failed. And none had any place to run it if they were successful that didn't depend on the good will of other who owned and/or controlled the track. If you don't own the railroad to run it on you can't depend on using it. i suggest you drop #170 from your wish list. |
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| Author: | QJdriver [ Sat May 07, 2022 3:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: new preservation group |
I guess the group I suggested is in CLEVELAND, not Akron. Try the American Steam Railroad Preservation Association, Reading 2100. What I said about their president is solid. |
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| Author: | Steamguy73 [ Sat May 07, 2022 4:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: new preservation group |
The key to any group is knowing the right people (and having some willing to help you) and having solid funding to back it. You can’t have one without the other: a good group of people without money have no way to fix anything. A guy with a good amount of money but no people to help or support him has no way to fix anything. These are all solid ideas, as I think all three locomotives do deserve a second chance at operation (or in the case of N&W 578, a third). All 3 could be good fits to work pretty much anywhere. But it will take time for both people and funding to come your way. Like QJDriver suggested, I believe your first order of business should be to volunteer on and visit already existing efforts. The Cleveland roundhouse has two of these projects going on, with ASR finishing up 2100 in the short-medium term future, and MRPS really starting to make inroads on finally fixing up GTW 4070. That’s a good place to look at two different organizations. Stuff like that. Many preservation organizations today are comprised of people who first started in the industry on another project elsewhere. If there’s anything that should be taught in this, is that there’s almost nothing that is truly impossible in rail preservation. Anyone who’s been paying attention to rail preservation in the past 5 years alone should be aware of simply how many things people said couldn’t or wouldn’t happen, and then they did. When there’s a will, there’s a way. You’ve got the will, but it’s going to take some time to find the way. And that’s perfectly alright. I wish the best on your journey going forward. I appreciate the enthusiasm. |
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| Author: | Dick_Morris [ Sat May 07, 2022 8:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: new preservation group |
Here is my opinion on the ballpark resources needed overhaul a long-out-of-service locomotive based on some experience in this area. At least two million dollars (more if you can't get substantial in-kind contributions or if inflation doesn't slow down soon), ten years, and a cadre of 20 or more volunteers who you can rely on to hang with you for the ten years. In addition to those who can turn a wrench or weld, you need a leader and visionary who is willing to spend thousands of hours as a project manager and organizational leader. Also someone with the ability to do the administrative and financial work, like complying with the business and non-profit compliance work, keeping the books, and filing taxes. Then one or more people with broad connections in the community who aren't shy about asking for donations, and/or have deep pockets, and someone who is able to prepare grants and run fund raising campaigns. Lastly, someone to communicate with the stakeholders and anyone else who you can get interested through regular presentations and social media. That's one scenario. Another is to involve a deep pocketed benefactor who is willing to throw several times as much money at the project and contract it. |
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| Author: | Daylight25 [ Sat May 07, 2022 10:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: new preservation group |
A new build Erie Pacific does sound nice, but there's still the possibility that one exists in one of the Koreas |
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| Author: | co614 [ Sun May 08, 2022 7:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: new preservation group |
Steamfan765, to give you a meaningful reply to your request first requires a brief bio of your self ( including a real name) showing whatever qualifications you may have ( successful completed past projects, fund raising experience, team leadership experience etc. ) that would indicate you have the skills needed to lead a $ 2-5 M, 3-10 year project. Once you post that info a substantial reply is feasible. Without it, no. Ross Rowland |
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| Author: | Andrew Treece [ Sun May 08, 2022 8:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: new preservation group |
co614 wrote: Steamfan765, to give you a meaningful reply to your request first requires a brief bio of your self ( including a real name) showing whatever qualifications you may have ( successful completed past projects, fund raising experience, team leadership experience etc. ) that would indicate you have the skills needed to lead a $ 2-5 M, 3-10 year project. Once you post that info a substantial reply is feasible. Without it, no. Ross Rowland He doesn’t have to post his real name just because you said so. The guys post clearly states he’s new. You can see it by the questions he asked. I’m sure a few people looked at you funny when you decided to start your projects. Give the kid a chance if he gets in with ASR an the work at Midwest he will learn and get a scope of what he is up against. Anyways man if you are local to Ohio check out Rick Rowlands J&L operations. He teaches the operation of steam and will teach if your willing to learn. See if you like to crawl before you run as he’s getting ready to rebuild the other J&L tank he got. |
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