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Did the Southern paint some steam switchers green? https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47021	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Steamguy73 [ Fri Nov 11, 2022 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Did the Southern paint some steam switchers green?
I'm unsure if this has been discussed before, but I think this would be an interesting topic to discuss in its own right. I was sorting through the Frank Ardrey collection recently of the Mid South Chapter of the RLHS, and I found some pretty interesting imagery involving some of the Southern's switchers. https://rlhs.org/Chapters/msc/ardrey/index.html for the entire collection by the way. Great stuff. I went down the rabbit hole and saw a switcher with very clear painting of the "southern" text on the tender. As shown here by Southern 1685, an 0-6-0, with a 1939 date. The color is unclear, but it's blatanly visible that 1685 in this picture has lining on the tender, the cab, and the domes. Now compare this with a more typical look of a clearly black southern switcher, with the very same 1685 in the year 1946, in a photo by C.W. Witbeck In the collection, I've seen a plethora of photos involving switchers wearing a variety of schemes. Some clearly painted black with "southern" on the tender, others with noticeably lighter boiler jackets and lining against the rest of the locomotive, and even a switcher in Meridian, Mississippi, with the green and yellow SR logo on the tender. Never knew that happened. But I'm still wondering. Did the Southern paint some of their switchers green?

Author:	Andrew Durden [ Fri Nov 11, 2022 5:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Did the Southern paint some steam switchers green?
The pre-1926 passenger scheme was the same as the green scheme but with black paint. Passenger engines said "Southern" on the tender. Some switchers got the same treatment. There were likely a very small number that got decked out in green, but it was by no means common practice.

Author:

10stewi [ Fri Nov 11, 2022 6:29 pm ]

Post subject:

Re: Did the Southern paint some steam switchers green?

From my understanding the lined black paint scheme would receive Southern on the tender, instead of a number. This could be found on power that was tasked with switching passenger equipment at terminals, as well as passenger power in rare instances. The Southern seems to have started moving away from this scheme during the war, but a few locomotives got it as late as 1949 & 1950.

As to switchers in green, I've learned never to say never with the Southern. Attached are a few potential examples of this.

First is CNO&TP 6019, dated 1927. The locomotive is definitely in a non standard black scheme, but the potential clue to a green scheme is the stack, painted in what appears to be black. I've only seen this on locomotives serviced by Princeton shops, that carried green, like 1244, but I wouldn't be surprised if the lined black scheme could also involve a black stack.

Second is 1509 "Old Maud". While the photo is more modern, she appears to be carrying a paint scheme given to it by the Southern, not preservation.The question being, is this an in service paint scheme, or a paint job after retirement? Other photos of Old Maud in service don't seem to show this scheme however.

The final three, whilst not green, is more evidence that everything wasn't just a simple black scheme as most people envision it.

Like I've said, never say never with the Southern

Attachments:

6019 - 1927 Lexington.JPG [ 294.85 KiB | Viewed 6906 times ]

1244.jpg [ 220.49 KiB | Viewed 6906 times ]

1509.jpg [ 214.32 KiB | Viewed 6906 times ]

1509 - Atlanta.jpg [ 65.68 KiB | Viewed 6906 times ]

1849.JPG [ 226.03 KiB | Viewed 6906 times ]

1846 - 1951.jpg [ 65.61 KiB | Viewed 6906 times ]

6512 - 1938 Meridian.jpg [ 217.28 KiB | Viewed 6906 times ]

Author:	Steamguy73 [ Fri Nov 11, 2022 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Did the Southern paint some steam switchers green?
I had no idea that was the predominant style before the numbers on the tender. My apologies if I’m asking a stupid question. In the same collection of photos, I could see several switchers that did have blatantly different boiler jacket colors, but those seemed to be old continuations of the “aluminum” jackets the southern used to have I probably wouldn’t had made this post if I had known the style was used routinely in the past. However, I have the feeling that I read somewhere, I don’t know where, that some of the Southern’s switchers were painted green at some point. Maybe that’s just me.

Author:	10stewi [ Fri Nov 11, 2022 9:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Did the Southern paint some steam switchers green?
No harm, no foul. I dont believe your original post was a bad question to ask! By no means am I a Southern expert, and Im still learning new bits about the Southern every time I do research. I wouldn't say that lined black was the standard at any one time, rather that it was in the popular minority outside of the passenger pool. A "standard" black paint scheme, with numbers on the tender seems to show up in all eras for switchers. My guess would be that lined black was used at the discretion of each CMO/head painter, and not by a governing rule or standard.

Author:	Dave [ Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:30 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Did the Southern paint some steam switchers green?
Yes, but not as standard practice.

Author:	Txhighballer [ Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Did the Southern paint some steam switchers green?
I can say that I have seen a green Southern 0-8-0 in Trains Magazine in an article. The picture was a painting of a real locomotive, and I believe her nickname was "Molly"

Author:	Andrew Durden [ Mon Nov 14, 2022 1:16 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Did the Southern paint some steam switchers green?
10stewi wrote: Second is 1509 "Old Maud". While the photo is more modern, she appears to be carrying a paint scheme given to it by the Southern, not preservation.The question being, is this an in service paint scheme, or a paint job after retirement? Other photos of Old Maud in service don't seem to show this scheme however. Maud was never green, in service. When she was retired, the Pegram Shop workers went on strike for a day to prevent her from being scrapped. Incidentally, Bill Purdie's father was the local chairman. She was painted green and set on a pedestal outside Pegram.

Author:	CentreKeystone [ Mon Nov 14, 2022 5:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Did the Southern paint some steam switchers green?
A while back I saw a magazine article with pictures of switchers which were specially decorated for use in passenger depots. Did Southern do this too?

Author:

10stewi [ Mon Nov 14, 2022 7:43 pm ]

Post subject:

Re: Did the Southern paint some steam switchers green?

Andrew Durden wrote:

Maud was never green, in service. When she was retired, the Pegram Shop workers went on strike for a day to prevent her from being scrapped.

Thanks for that detail Andrew. Didn't know that little bit of history.

Txhighballer wrote:

I can say that I have seen a green Southern 0-8-0 in Trains Magazine in an article. The picture was a painting of a real locomotive, and I believe her nickname was "Molly"

I believe the locomotive you are referencing was named Dolly. She was a USRA 0-8-0 switch engine at Oakdale, which her regular engineer dolled up. If the locomotive was painted green or not, I cant remember.

Attachments:

6030 - 1938 - Oakdale - Engineer Charlie Snyder.jpg [ 98.47 KiB | Viewed 6004 times ]

Author:	derail [ Tue Nov 15, 2022 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Did the Southern paint some steam switchers green?
Andrew Durden wrote: Maud was never green, in service. When she was retired, the Pegram Shop workers went on strike for a day to prevent her from being scrapped. Incidentally, Bill Purdie's father was the local chairman. She was painted green and set on a pedestal outside Pegram. Is there a source that confirms that the strike actually happened or could this just be an exaggeration of the request to keep the engine that was made?

Author:	joe6167 [ Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Did the Southern paint some steam switchers green?
For fun: look at how many minor changes were made to the engine between those two photographs: -Change of headlight visor -Change in the exhaust pipe from the dynamo -Addition of some exhaust pipe behind the stack Fascinating how these engines seemed to get modified on an almost daily basis...

Author:	Andrew Durden [ Wed Nov 16, 2022 11:09 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Did the Southern paint some steam switchers green?
derail wrote: Andrew Durden wrote: Maud was never green, in service. When she was retired, the Pegram Shop workers went on strike for a day to prevent her from being scrapped. Incidentally, Bill Purdie's father was the local chairman. She was painted green and set on a pedestal outside Pegram. Is there a source that confirms that the strike actually happened or could this just be an exaggeration of the request to keep the engine that was made? Mr. Purdie told me. It was probably a "threat", made in jest. It was a relatively small request, given the occasional animosity between the Southern and its Union.

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