Here are 2 old threats with more info about the car:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35746
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37213
plus the builder photo for this series of cars.
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| Railway Preservation News https://www.rypn.org/forums/ |
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| Western Pacific #302 coach Pullman, 1910) https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47123 |
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| Author: | ted66 [ Sat Dec 24, 2022 12:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Western Pacific #302 coach Pullman, 1910) |
This coack was built for the Denver, Rio Grande and later transferred to the Western Pacific. Recently it was donated to the Western Pacific Railroad Museum by by Les Beckman of the Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum. The car has been working the various tourist railroads abound the Chicago for many years. The WPRM people intend to run it behind their WP #165 this summer. It is shorter than their zephyr cars that have trouble getting around the Portola turning loop. The interior has the usual tired interior but can be repaired in time. Ted Miles |
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| Author: | linkthebutler [ Sat Dec 24, 2022 7:46 am ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: Western Pacific #302 coach Pullman, 1910) | ||
Here are 2 old threats with more info about the car: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35746 viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37213 plus the builder photo for this series of cars.
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| Author: | MT4351 [ Sun Dec 25, 2022 2:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Western Pacific #302 coach Pullman, 1910) |
There has been a number mix-up. The WP 302 is part of an order of 20 cars built in 1923 by the Pullman Co. and has a "Harriman" style arch roof. It has never been renumbered nor modified by the WP and is currently at Rio Vista Junction, unserviceable, where it has been stored indoors for quite a while. NCRy at Sunol also has one of these cars, the 315, which had been converted to M/W service in the 1940s and painted orange until they converted it back to a coach. The car number in the pic provided is "321" and as such is probably the first car in a different order of cars. |
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| Author: | Rainier Rails [ Sun Dec 25, 2022 4:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Western Pacific #302 coach Pullman, 1910) |
This is from the Lot of 51 coaches (84 seat capacity) built by Pullman in 1910 (July to October), 40 for the WP, and 11 for the D&RG. The 40 cars for the WP were #301 (1st) to #340, 11 cars for the D&RG were #888-#898. The 40 WP cars would be transferred to the Rio Grande starting in 1915 as the predicted passenger traffic levels on the WP did not materialize. So the coaches WP received in 1923 were #301 (2nd)-#320 (2nd), in Lot #4716 (ordered/built at same time as 8 diners built in Lot #4717). The total of the 1910 coaches on the D&RG(W) would later be renumbered to #900-#950 in 1926, then later many were renumbered into new various series in the #900's and #1000's and modernized to various configurations, as well as 2 to business cars (both of which are extant). Other un-modernized cars were sold to the Algoma Central in 1949, including this car (there are at least 3, if not 5, other survivors by this route of ownership.) |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Sun Dec 25, 2022 1:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Western Pacific #302 coach Pullman, 1910) |
Rainier Rails wrote: This is from the Lot of 51 coaches (84 seat capacity) built by Pullman in 1910 (July to October), 40 for the WP, and 11 for the D&RG. The 40 cars for the WP were #301 (1st) to #340, 11 cars for the D&RG were #888-#898. The 40 WP cars would be transferred to the Rio Grande starting in 1915 as the predicted passenger traffic levels on the WP did not materialize. So the coaches WP received in 1923 were #301 (2nd)-#320 (2nd), in Lot #4716 (ordered/built at same time as 8 diners built in Lot #4717). The total of the 1910 coaches on the D&RG(W) would later be renumbered to #900-#950 in 1926, then later many were renumbered into new various series in the #900's and #1000's and modernized to various configurations, as well as 2 to business cars (both of which are extant). Other un-modernized cars were sold to the Algoma Central in 1949, including this car (there are at least 3, if not 5, other survivors by this route of ownership.) Ted - Thanks very much for clarifying all this. Yes, the car now at the Western Pacific Railroad Museum in Portola, California is WP # 302 (first) from the initial 1910 order from Pullman. The other WP 302 (at Rio Vista Junction) is from the later 1923 order. One slight correction. When the initial 1910 Western Pacific cars started going back to the Denver & Rio Grande, they were renumbered starting at the end of the D&RG nuumbers which, as you say, ended at 898. Thus the first car returned was given the number 899 (not 900) and happened to be ex-WP 302, the car that is now at Portola. I have a lot of correspondence on all this in my files from when I still had possession of the car! BTW, let me also take a moment to wish all of those here on RyPN, a most Joyous Christmas! Les |
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| Author: | PMC [ Sun Dec 25, 2022 8:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Western Pacific #302 coach Pullman, 1910) |
https://www.2news.com/video/nevada-back ... 79a42.html |
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| Author: | linkthebutler [ Sun Jan 01, 2023 3:03 am ] | ||||||
| Post subject: | Re: Western Pacific #302 coach Pullman, 1910) | ||||||
Here are all the surviving cars of this series. The last pic is at Depot Park in Belpre, OH. This car is not mentioned in the links above any more info on that? (It is in fake B&O colors)
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| Author: | Thomas Cornillie [ Sun Jan 01, 2023 2:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Western Pacific #302 coach Pullman, 1910) |
D&RGW #917 ACR #404 (as described previously in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35746&start=15) is located at the the Club Car Grille - 6225 W D Ave, One Mile west of US131, Kalamazoo, MI 49009-9013. There are photos of the interior on Tripadvisor and Google Maps. The car has a side door cut into it and some modifications to the interior. With these modifications, it would perform well as an accessible coach. Additionally, the roof and regular heating / air conditioning should do well in preserving the car. But, restaurant failures are frequent and sudden. I suggest keeping an eye on the car in Belpre, Ohio in the Depot Park, as accumulating maintenance needs may prompt the city government to look for options for disposing the car. A similarly situated car in Danville, IL (of Chicago & Eastern Illinois and Boston & Maine heritage) was scrapped this year. |
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| Author: | rswebber [ Tue Jul 16, 2024 10:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Western Pacific #302 coach Pullman, 1910) |
These cars have had a history that is more akin to myth than fact - at least in terms of "popular" press and most folk. The WP *NEVER* owned the cars. The were ordered by the D&RG (11 for operation on the D&RG and 40 for operation on the WP). The Account 54 Ledger for D&RG clearly states this, as does the Pullman Lot Specifications. Yes, those 40 were painted for WP, but they had to be returned when the D&RG entered receivership and "lost" the WP. Along with these cars, the D&RG recovered diners, baggage cars and buffet library cars. Again, none of those cars were owned by the WP either. This is why the WP ended up on a buying spree in 1923 and basically replaced the D&RG cars with a variety of cars. The new baggage cars, which everyone insists on calling "Harrimans" were built by Pressed Steel Car - and are NOT "Harriman (sic) or Common Standard - one look at the hoods will confirm that. The diners were virtual copies of UP diners (again, NOT Common Standard), the coaches were also modified UP cars (again, neither "Harriman" nor Common Standard). An arched roof does not, by itself, indicate either Harriman (sic) or Common Standard design. We have the original Lot Specifications, the Account 54 Ledgers and Jackson Thode's research on these (the 1910 cars, we have the specs for the 1923 order, but not the Ledgers). It is correct to say WP operated the 40 cars form the 1910 order, but they certainly never owned those cars. |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Wed Jul 17, 2024 12:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Western Pacific #302 coach Pullman, 1910) |
rswebber - Thanks for all of the info. Yes, these 1910 cars were ordered by the D&RG, but 40 coaches (including the 302) were specifically planned to go to the Western Pacific and were lettered as such by Pullman. I can't find any references in this long thread that said the 302 (and the other cars you mentioned) were actually owned by the WP. But thanks again for the information and for bringing the subject up again. It would be interesting to know if the Western Pacific Railroad Museum in Portola, has done any work on the car since it was moved from Indiana out to California. Les |
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