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| Coal Ash Disposal https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47154 |
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| Author: | mldeets [ Mon Jan 09, 2023 11:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Coal Ash Disposal |
A question for all operators currently using coal. What are your local/regional rules & regulations? If no overriding rules, how are you disposing of the ash? Thank You............mld |
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| Author: | J.David [ Tue Jan 10, 2023 12:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Coal Ash Disposal |
Greetings: At Valley Railroad, about every tenth truck load delivered, we load the now empty trailer with the residue from the previous loads. The residue gets hauled back to the strip mine from whence it came and dumped for fill. VRR pays for the backhaul. VRR tries to buy low ash coal, however it is more important for us that the coal to be low volatile (we have neighbors). We have concrete bins to store the coal and the residue, both of which are tarped. The tarps are held in place with used tires from autos or trucks. J.David |
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| Author: | John Risley [ Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Coal Ash Disposal |
Not of any value to Pete Deets question but I forgot how impressed I was with the Valley and how very little smoke was to be found or even smelled when the trains were at the depot. I think the average diesel produced more smoke and smell. For some RR smoke is not a problem but in the case of the Valley it would probably be essential to "keep peace in the world" by addressing any excess smoke. Really a fine operation. Regards, John. |
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| Author: | mldeets [ Thu Jan 12, 2023 5:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Coal Ash Disposal |
Thank You J. David, As we get nearer to firing C&NW #1385 we have to come to grips with the different world we now live in compared to when she went out of service. If anyone else would care to comment but don't want to do so publicly please feel free to PM me here through RYPN................mld |
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| Author: | QJdriver [ Thu Jan 12, 2023 6:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Coal Ash Disposal |
I don't know diddley about firing locomotives with coal, but it looks to me like the Chinese figured it out. In one month spent visiting 15 different Chinese steam operations, I only observed a solid black cloud of smoke (like photographers want for photo stops) twice. They handled the pollution problem by paying firemen in inverse proportion to the amount of coal they needed to accomplish a day's work. The less coal burned = the less ash produced. Some of the smaller operations used their ashes for ballast, too. Best of luck with your #1385, I'll bet you fellas can do it !!! |
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| Author: | BM765 [ Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Coal Ash Disposal |
What is Western Maryland Scenic doing? I recall that during the 1309 restoration there was a lot of talk about a decent percentage of the restoration funding being earmarked for coal storage and ash disposal systems required by new WV regulations. Was anything actually done? |
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| Author: | scratchyX1 [ Fri Jan 13, 2023 1:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Coal Ash Disposal |
I thought coal ash could be used in concrete, as an aggregate. Or as a fill material for road/trail/rail right of way construction. |
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| Author: | jayrod [ Fri Jan 13, 2023 2:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Coal Ash Disposal |
Interesting topic. Which state you are in determines what “beneficial use” there is and what you can do with coal ash. It can contain a host of heavy metals that can leach out - arsenic being one of the biggies. In Pennsylvania, the land of my people, they used the cinders on streets in the winter or as dirt road toppings when I was a kid. That’s no longer allowed. Quite a few states require permits to use the stuff. Some states are still spreading it around willy-nilly. |
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| Author: | mldeets [ Fri Jan 13, 2023 4:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Coal Ash Disposal |
jayrod wrote: ... Which state you are in determines what “beneficial use” there is and what you can do with coal ash. ... Thanks Eric and that is precisely what I'm trying to determine from operators actually dealing with the materials. I have to admit I'm not yet fully versed on what the requirements for Wisconsin will be. I'm hoping to gather information for a comparison of requirements...............mld |
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| Author: | jayrod [ Fri Jan 13, 2023 11:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Coal Ash Disposal |
Just doing a quick internet search, it seems most rules in Wisconsin have to due with the big producers like power plants. WI also reuses a lot of ash and that seems to be coming under fire. You’d not be a large producer. I’d think your best bet is to contact WDNR directly and see if the small amount you’d produce is even regulated and how to dispose of it. |
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| Author: | EJ Berry [ Sat Jan 14, 2023 12:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Coal Ash Disposal |
Back in the day, cinders were used as ballast on secondary tracks and running tracks. That said, there are hazmats in coal ash (cinders) which rule out that use. Here's what EPA has to say: https://www.epa.gov/coalash/coal-ash-basics Phil Mulligan |
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| Author: | John Risley [ Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Coal Ash Disposal |
Think Jayrod is correct MC will not be a big producer of ash. Even in the old days of running steam 7 days a week, 5 trips a day we were a small time producer of ash. But we must remember now, coal, is the work of satan and regs change. I seriously think, like oil spills, the amount determines who all gets involved. When the #2s oil burner was not working right it dribbled a serious mess of drain oil under the firebox. A long with some very dirty and old bottom of the tank car oil. The first few firings were maddening because of it. The DNR was contacted about it and I forget the amount needed to call 911 but it was way more than the puddle the #2 was making. It was good to know regardless being right next to the river. Had close friend as Sr Engineer {ret} at Pulliam Power plant in GB, Wi. I recall when he found a solution to disposing of the large amount of ash. A large ready mix plant gladly came and hauled it away for free. The state also tested ash mix for either roadbed or aggregate on a section of what is now I-41 just south of GB. I never heard of it mentioned again after they poured concrete. That had to have been 20-25 years ago at least. Of course regs may have changed. Coal is evil plain and simple and anything attached to coal is evil. Before the dust has settled from tearing down our sometimes newer coal fired power plants they started warning of power outages around the country? Huh, who would of thunk it? We were told at MC that coal cinders makes for a mediocre ballast as the cinders crumble and eventually turns less than useful. Sidings and secondary track it might be good enough? When you didn't have money for stone ballast, it worked. 30-40 years later it had deteriorated badly. Maybe sooner on some mainline stretches. Regards, John. |
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| Author: | Kelly Anderson [ Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Coal Ash Disposal |
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| Author: | NVPete [ Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:20 am ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: Coal Ash Disposal | ||
EJ Berry wrote: Back in the day, cinders were used as ballast on secondary tracks and running tracks. Here's a good example, Phil. This photo was taken not too long after they removed the interlocking and ripped up #4 Track through Annville...
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| Author: | EJ Berry [ Sat Jan 14, 2023 9:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Coal Ash Disposal |
Yes, the subgrade under the former Track 4 could be cinders or soil. There were plenty of cinders available. But Track 2 with the train has crushed rock ballast, appropriate for as heavy a line as the Lebanon Valley Branch. Phil Mulligan |
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