With the recent discussions about the Railroad in New Jersey, another classic talking point has come up. Young people just don't want to help.

Almost 15 years I've been around preservation, tourist railroads, museums. Its a very classic point, young people just don't want to help. I beg to differ. I for one, am tired of anyone under the age of 40 always being the punching bag, always being blamed for everything. its very frustrating. When I started out at the Georgetown Loop, I was the youngest person there by about 10 years. When I left the Loop last year, after 11 years there. I was in the middle of the age range. Down in Durango, I'm still in the middle of the age range, most of my coworkers are much younger then myself. So young people are very much out there, they have the ambition to do this kind of work.

There is one difference however, we got paid. I don't see as much desire to do the work for free, but I think its ill advised to place blame for wanting compensation on us. Most people 10 or 20 years older then myself (I'm 34) do not understand how hard it can be to simply survive. We for most part do not own houses, we don't get vacation time from work, we work long hours, and put most of that money towards living expenses. Those of us who do have family's and children have other responsibilities, and its hard to justiy being gone 1 day out of your 2 days off to go play trains. For the most part, our jobs are not 8 to 5, monday through friday. We work weekends, holidays. Some people I know who tried to break into preservation ended up on Shortlines and class 1's, they chased the money so they could survive, and now do not have the time to deal with preservation. I know one very skilled steam mechanic who ended up at UP as a conductor, and has rarely had free time to do anything but work.

We can barely afford gas, rent, groceries. Kind of the doom and gloom Rick talked about at the beginning of last year, but honestly, that doom and gloom has been my life the last 10 years. Driving somewhere to work for free, that's a tough call. But I do get sick of the sheer blame that its still somehow our fault that we choose survival over giving back. Some of us just don't see it as a viable option, ours days off are a time to either see our family, or get a second gig to make a little extra money beyond living expenses. When I was young, my mother took me on at least 2 or 3 camping trips a summer, and I went to chicago to see my extended family. Since Having a family of my own, I've taken exactly one trip in the last 4 years with them, and only 1 addition trip just my wife and I. Simply can't afford it.

Now granted, I choose a path in tourist railroading. I do not regret it. I may complain about the lack of pay, but I still would not change it for anything. I had a choice after the loop to either stick with it, or leave it for anything else. I choose to move to Durango and continue. But so many of the "Kids" i started out with left the industry. They were not all willing to make the sacrifices I was. Some of these people were involved with bringing D&RGW 491 back from the dead, returning 315 to service, keeping 346 running early last decade. We all worked on those things, and many I worked alongside left it because it was not sustainable for them.

I just wish, that before once again blaming young people for not helping enough, that maybe some would think of what we are going through personally. That does not even begin to get into the area of lots of Museums, model railroad groups coming off as an "Old Gentlemans Club". Thats very much a separate topic.

I’ve always thought, as I think most of us older farts here do, that we understand that younger people have other priorities. You have jobs and kids and other obligations that take up time and money. When I was 34, there was no way I could volunteer much time anywhere let alone try to make a living at it. To do it as a paying job, it’s not likely you’ll get rich and there are not a lot of living wage jobs in preservation. It’s more of a passion thing and I commend you. So, moral to the story, treat your younger members like gold.

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One interesting challenge I've noticed in recent years with young folks in the late teens- mid 20's age bracket is how many of them have adopted life habits that make them disqualified for either part time or full time assignments.

About 1 in 4 applicants we have in the 6 companies I'm involved in fail a drug test ( 90% on a/c of weed in their system) or they're covered in tattoos which we prohibit. One of those companies is a class 3 shortline railroad.

I was very encouraged to witness lots of young people on the 2 R&N 2102 excursions I rode and also lots of youngsters in the chaser crowds.

Ross Rowland

Well for me things have come full circle. I am old and busted up. Retired and living on SS on what most folks would call poverty level income. You are spot on about affording to volunteer. You have to really want too. You sacrifice both time and money to do so. A sad fact of life. If you want to go party, drive a car out of your price range, live in an apt complex that has all the amenities your not going to be able to afford it. When I was young friends would rent a house together to keep our rent affordable and still have our own place so to speak. Yup money is tight for all of us or many of us anyway. You drive a $90,000 dually crew cab, live alone, drive new cars, choose the most expensive housing you can find? Money is tight for most of us, if you want to volunteer your going to have to prioritize. At least I do. 6 hour round trip to my museum of choice. $100 in gas if I take my truck. So economics does play a part. Family ought to play a part if you have one. So this is what it is for many of us, not just the disenfranchised youth.

This response it more about economics than younger people getting no respect for work ethics. Your economic points are well made but it is the same for youth, adults, old people, minorities. The housing cost is nuts. How can a family survive is beyond me. It is very hard to get ahead to afford to volunteer or take a vacation or move out of your parents basement. Playing the victim helps no one though. I volunteered for many years when I was young to the point it interfered with my partying and howling at the moon. But I chose it over new cars and expensive apt living. I commend you for having a family and working in the tourist industry. I worked as a contractor for two summers a few years back. My pay kept me eating food and a beer at the end the day. I did not eat out every meal, ate sandwiches and read books. Where there is a will there is a way, but you do have to want to live the dream as your not going to get rich. You really need to learn how to handle money and prioritize where you spend your money. I made $12 or $14 per hr living out of a suit case and living on some crappy food, doing laundry at laundromat. Glad for the experience but I more or less broke even on the cost of living and transportation home again. One disclaimer. When I moved to a different project I lived like a rock star in nice motel better than at home. Still my hourly wage was not that much but living conditions were great. Wish I had gone to WV first. Thanks GB. Regards, John.

PS Any Blues players out there. See how profitable it is in the music business. If it isn't a passion then your peeing up a rope looking for fame or fortune.

I can see drug testing in safety critical industries, but banning tattoos? What is that about?

While I personally don't have any tattoos, I concur, especially considering just how common tattoos are among people under 40. In fact, tattoos amongst this demographic are so common, that companies have had to abandon policies that forbid them, hell, even Disney is allowing cast members to have visible tattoos.

Folks are certainly within their rights to have their body host a tattoo if they wish and I'm certainly within my rights to not want them on my team.

I have long felt that tattoos speak to poor judgement and their owner is to be avoided.

Ross Rowland

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Wasn't this the same person that boasted about keeping an all male train crew as some sort of accomplishment in this day and age? And you all are surprised by his take on tattoos?

Ross says inked up freaky people need not apply.
So I rolled my sleeves down over my art, and I went in to ask him why.
He said "you look like a fine upstanding young man, I think you'll do".
So I showed him my Tats and said "imagine that, huh. Me, working for you!"

As for Mary Jane, things are a bit different north of the border these days. We don't have random drug testing at work (we do have post-incident testing of course), and recreational use has been legal for several years now. Smoking a joint is as legal as having a few beers.

A surprisingly large number of railroaders out here are regular or occasional pot smokers, including some of the best and smartest I've ever worked with. They all passed the drug test when they hired on (as far as I know CN, CP and many other employers still do this) and make sure to show up to work stone cold sober.

If someone is dumb enough apply for a job with a medical examination that includes a drug test they'll know about well in advance and they still fail it, perhaps they aren't smart enough to be working around railroad equipment. But in my experience there is no reason why someone who consumes marijuana can't also be a good railroader, as long as they make sure to keep those two pursuits very well separated. Just like with alcohol.

Kelly I certainly admire and respect all you've done over the years to improve the industry and Strasburg is certainly the Gold Standard both on the operating and shop sides.

Our 6 companies all pay on average about 20% over the prevailing wage as we've found over time that paying a premium gets us the above average talent we desire.

So far, that premium has produced plenty of tattoo free applicants who can also pass a drug test.

So far so good. Ross Rowland

There's also the movement among younger people that can afford it (myself included) that are moving towards a personal "backyard preservation" model where we own the items we work with and deal with them on our own terms and time. The common denominator amongst all of us that I've noticed being we don't want to put up with a bunch of boomers talking to us like we're too stupid to turn a wrench.

My job allows me plenty of time and disposable income (the benefit of working to get a very rare, hard to come by degree) that I could lend to a museum. But why would I do that when I could just buy a run down traction engine and a couple of stationary engines and bang around on them in my own backyard when the creative urge strikes. At the end of the day I own it, I can do what I want with it, and I don't have a group of people telling me I'm stupid because I had the audacity to be born after Truman was president. Which somehow automatically makes me too inept to possibly understand anything mechanical. My contemporaries in the same position for the majority seem to agree.

Surprised about the contents of the answer? No.

Surprised he hasn't learned his lesson about "removing all doubt"? Sadly, not really either.

Our 6 companies all pay on average about 20% over the prevailing wage as we've found over time that paying a premium gets us the above average talent we desire.

So far, that premium has produced plenty of tattoo free applicants who can also pass a drug test.

So far so good. Ross Rowland[/quote]

What are the 6 companies that pay 20% over prevailing wages?