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| Steam Locomotive Bell identification https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47259 |
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| Author: | elueck [ Sat Feb 25, 2023 10:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Steam Locomotive Bell identification |
I was shown a steam locomotive bell today with the number 50520 stamped onto the bell collar. I am aware that Baldwin always stamped their bells with the class ID number, not the builders plate number, and that so far as I am aware, Alco did not stamp their bells at all. My question is regarding locomotives that Baldwin built that were not their design, such as the War Department 2-8-0's of WW-2. This number, if an actual BLW builders plate # (not class #) would belong to a WW-2 War Department 2-8-0. I would like to hear from the experts out there as to what the probability of Baldwin doing something like this, or from someone who has actually inspected a bell from a Baldwin built War Department 2-8-0. |
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| Author: | Kelly Anderson [ Sun Feb 26, 2023 12:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Steam Locomotive Bell identification |
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| Author: | Dick_Morris [ Sun Feb 26, 2023 2:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Steam Locomotive Bell identification |
This explanation gets way into the weeds, but everything I've seen concerning Baldwin-built "S-160" Consolidations causes me to doubt that Baldwin would have marked a 1940s bell with the builder's number. Per the Lima card index and the card index that covered the order ARR-557 was delivered under, bells weren't standard on the export S-160s. I think BLW was the only builder that supplied U.S. specification S-160s and not all of the S-160s used in the U.S. were built as U.S. spec models. I can solidly document that ARR-551 to ARR-554 (BLW serial number 2-8-0 192 476-479) were built to U.S. specs and had bells mounted high on the left side of the smoke box. The BLW drawings for both the bell and the bell rope installation were created specifically for these four locomotives were built. The bells were cast iron according to the BLW drawing. The builder's photo for a 5 foot gauge U.S.S.R. S-160 doesn't show a bell. The card index doesn't show a bell for the 80 5'6" gauge S-160s that went to India (but does show an electrical systems). I know that seven 2-8-0s that came to the Alaska Railroad (ARR-551 through 557) were to U.S. specs, with bells, turbo-generator and electric lighting, pilots, knuckle couplers, and power reverse. I can't say for sure if any of the other five were to U.S. specs, but know that at least two were manufactured to export specs and modified later. I believe that some of the S-160s used at Ft. Eustis and Fort Polk were built to U.S. specs, but at least two were not. Early photos or USATC 1702, now Great Smokey Mountains 1702 show it to be European spec, with no electrical system, no pilot, and European Couplers. The video that gives a quick view of the ALCO S160 at Camp Claiborne shows it to not have an electrical system and I don't see a bell. (This locomotive later came to the ARR.) 557 doesn't have the original bell, it was replaced, probably once by the ARR and later by Monte Holm, with top mounted bells. We have a cast iron side mount bell that we believe came from one of the S-160s. I haven't ever looked at it closely, but if it is numbered I would expect it to be marked with the BLW class and serial number (2-8-0 19S XXX) which is the typical marking for many parts (including valve links, rods, cab, and cylinder block) made to both ALCO and BLW drawings. As far as I know, no parts, with the possible exception of markings on the boiler, were marked with the builder's number. |
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| Author: | John T [ Sun Feb 26, 2023 9:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Steam Locomotive Bell identification |
50520 Std 21x28 56” 2-8-0 Soft Coal 11/1918 10-36-E US War Department #1713 - for - US Army #1713, France Paris-Orleans #7287, France Paris Lyons & Mediterranee #140.518, France French National (SNCF) #140.G.518 |
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| Author: | Overmod [ Sun Feb 26, 2023 11:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Steam Locomotive Bell identification |
As noted above: would a War Department engine built for service in France have been built with a bell? I'm not at all familiar with the War Department engines of WWI but I'd bet there are some detail drawings somewhere (De Golyer?) that would give details. |
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| Author: | 70000 [ Sun Feb 26, 2023 11:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Steam Locomotive Bell identification |
Overmod wrote: As noted above: would a War Department engine built for service in France have been built with a bell? I'm not at all familiar with the War Department engines of WWI but I'd bet there are some detail drawings somewhere (De Golyer?) that would give details. The first one certainly did, as shown on this Wiki link.... https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... ped%29.jpg |
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| Author: | elueck [ Sun Feb 26, 2023 12:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Steam Locomotive Bell identification |
Kelly, You are correct about the number, and the Pershings were all Baldwin Class 10-36E and everything is stamped on them with the Class #. I was tired last night having just driven in from New Mexico, and I should have seen that. And, yes, all of the Pershings were equipped with a bell, and because it was a standard BLW class, the class # was stamped on the collar. So, that leaves the question unanswered, as to what the number means, as it rules out a Baldwin Bell. Does anyone know if Alco ever stamped bells? If they did, C/N 50520 corresponds to a Pennsylvania B-29 0-6-0 built by Richmond in 1912 and originally numbered 7146. |
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| Author: | Dave [ Mon Feb 27, 2023 8:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Steam Locomotive Bell identification |
Is that the one that's in the quarry? |
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| Author: | Dennis Storzek [ Mon Feb 27, 2023 11:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Steam Locomotive Bell identification |
elueck wrote: Does anyone know if Alco ever stamped bells? I undertook a project to stamp a 'STOLEN FROM...' message on the bell and whistle of a park engine after the bell was found partially loose, Soo Line 2442, a F-22 class 2-8-0 in Marshfield, Wisc., built by Alco in 1911. I found a four digit number stamped on the top of the bell itself, not the collar, that did not match either the road number or builder number. Turns out it was the number of the sales order the batch of engines was built under. Since the railroad would have little use for this number, I assume it was stamped at Alco. |
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