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 Post subject: Slightly OT, But Puts Our Reproduction Efforts to Shame
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2023 4:33 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 2477
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Last edited by Kelly Anderson on Sun Aug 18, 2024 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT, But Puts Our Reproduction Efforts to Shame
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2023 1:53 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 3:04 pm
Posts: 178
Location: San Jose, CA
There IS a group of railroad “hobbyists” who are actively doing what you are advocating. This group is constructing new railroads and equipment. Often this involves replicating lost designs but with a twenty-first century twist. Because of shared interests, challenges and needs, this group collaborates frequently.

The group…operators of grand scale railroads. By internal definition, grand scale infers gauge width between 12 and 24 inches with 15” (¼ scale”) the most common.

Unlike smaller scales in which locomotives are often straddled by the engineer, grand scale locomotives are operated from the tender or in some cases actually from within the cab. Grand scale equipment shares the same component complexity as their full scale counterparts and locomotives can weigh anywhere from a few tons to nearly 10 tons…these are not toys.

The overreaching hurdles of full scale steam locomotive reproduction are costs and where the completed engine will run. Yes in a selected case such as the Maine two footer locomotive, both hurdles may be overcome. 4014’s restoration required a tender full of corporate funding. Conversely in the case of the T-1, realistic operations are publicly unknown. Steam locomotives simply burn money.

Which brings us back to the steam traction and grand scale communities. Costs are simply lower and the entrance requirements are manageable for an individual or organization. The need for a large back shop facility is removed with the ability to do most work in one’s garage.

While grand scale railroads may never fully replicate the intensity of seeing a high ball freight running at 60 miles per hour, they provide the sense of what steam power can do. More importantly, the men and women who are involved with grand scale railroads are retaining the skills and knowledge of steam locomotive construction, maintenance and operation into the 21st century.


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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT, But Puts Our Reproduction Efforts to Shame
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2023 7:06 pm 

Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:40 pm
Posts: 395
Location: San Francisco, CA
Ken,
I have to disagree with you on this one. It a loco or car is smaller than common carrier or industrial trackage it is model railroading writ large.

There are so many real locomotives in parks and run down museums that need money spent on them; so I do not believe that model railroading is historic preservation.

You mentioned a couple of full size reproductions; another is the V&T #1 Lyon nearing completion at the Nevada State Railroad Museum-Carson City. The 4-4-0 is going to be a striking locomotive when she is completed.

Ted Miles, Nevada State Railroad museum member


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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT, But Puts Our Reproduction Efforts to Shame
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2023 10:28 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:10 pm
Posts: 232
For those that haven’t heard Dakota Foundry the foundry that Kory bought to cast the parts for the 150 Case has cast the cylinders for the #11 locomotive that the WW&F is building.
So one reproduction has helped further another reproduction.

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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT, But Puts Our Reproduction Efforts to Shame
PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2023 8:05 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 2691
Location: Sackets Harbor, NY
Well worth viewing. I dare say that our industry has quite a few up & comers of the caliber of the outstanding young man featured in the video. The emergence of the FMW team in recent years is one example.

Thanks Kelly for bringing this to our attention. Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT, But Puts Our Reproduction Efforts to Shame
PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2023 6:02 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 2492
Ken has a valid point. It might be mentioned, though, that if the only purpose of the T1 (note, not T-1) Trust could be achieved with a 15"-gauge locomotive, a suitable engine was built (by Ed Woodings) and even if its Japanese present owner did not care to loan it for testing, a replica could be constructed for far less, and run far more.

I don't want this to detract from the achievement that is the nominal subject here: the reconstruction of a Case 150 traction engine, something that is impressive both to consider in historical material and when seen up close. I admire the group's capitalization of all the necessary technologies, just as I admired the T1 Trust carefully researching not only the historic materials and fabrication but finding people who could still work with them. Even in the absence of a UP-scale systemic 'quality initiative', those things go a long way toward making even large projects sustainable.

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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT, But Puts Our Reproduction Efforts to Shame
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2023 12:04 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:54 pm
Posts: 2516
Mr. Anderson appears to have been born, weaned and educated to this particular task.

His wealth in this case is human ingenuity and perspicacity. This project is an extension of his businesses based on his interests. When we use the term "wealthy" we often imply ownership of financial assets; but those things aren't wealth; they are claims on wealth. He has that rare ability to see a problem and envision a remedy. That warbell thing looks pretty damn cool.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/kory-anderson-54476418/

https://150case.com/about-the-engineer/

https://www.jamesvalleythreshers.com/pr ... -anderson/

https://koryanderson.com/about

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuaXJ6sLRBc


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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT, But Puts Our Reproduction Efforts to Shame
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2023 6:01 am 

Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:56 pm
Posts: 439
Location: Ontario, Canada.
The Anderson family is first class in every way. They have been very successful in business, manufacturing, and community participation. Andersons have built a great reputation in farm equipment manufacturing. They have also restored a range of vintage equipment including steam traction engines, steam cars, vintage autos, and tractors. They have been great assets to the antique equipment hobbies and have supported many hobby organizations and events.
Kory represents the best that a young man can be. He combines intellect with extraordinary mechanical and engineering ability, and a strong work ethic. More importantly, he loves family and friends, and is always pleasant with others. Through his businesses, such as the foundry, he is providing excellent services to the old equipment community. Railway preservationists can use his many services, and I can testify that his work is top notch.
All the good things that the Andersons have accomplished has come through hard work and dedication to the job.


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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT, But Puts Our Reproduction Efforts to Shame
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2023 7:45 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11826
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
This topic reveals the one major shortcoming of rail preservation: YOU NEED A RAILROAD.

There are many other instances of magnificent preservation, restoration, and recreation about in the other transportation and industrial fields, from carriages to autos to boats to planes to mills to fire engines to race cars.

The critical difference is that when completed, you don't need another company's permission to run on their property. You just find a big field, a racetrack, or a way to make it legally roadworthy. (And maybe secure proper licensing/registration as needed with the Coast Guard, FAA, DMV, state, etc.)

If we could run a PRR T1 replica on the Interstate highways, that thing would have been completed ten years ago.


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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT, But Puts Our Reproduction Efforts to Shame
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2023 8:32 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:18 am
Posts: 725
Location: Wall, NJ
The tractor in question is a one-off build and a big one at that. Does it require owning a railroad? No, but it requires a damn large field to see it used as intended, and a building with a heck of a door to store it in. Certainly not items that will be found with ease, and affordably, in many states.

To add to the discussion, the wooden boat preservation world also seems to put rail equipment preservation to shame. There are some amazing projects out there, both private and corporate, restoring or building from new. And they have a great magazine that anyone involved in wooden rail car work should pick up on occasion. Keep in mind, most of these vessels do not sit in marinas owned by the vessel owner. Ok, rivers, bays, oceans provide free places to see them in action, but they need a yard to call home.

As to the need for a railroad, there are hundreds of good rail equipment projects out there that are privately owned, or corporate owned, that do just fine without railroad ownership. In many cases the situation is worked like a marina, in other cases, the railroad itself gets to use the item in question in return for free storage.

Key with any of these projects is regular activity related to the project. Moving a project to a RR, marina, or field, and then never touching the thing will only result in a negative, perhaps nasty, outcome. Marinas are full of good intentions sitting on blocks and rotting, but we find the same thing with tractors and “preserved” rail equipment.

J.R. May


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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT, But Puts Our Reproduction Efforts to Shame
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2023 10:10 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 2477
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Last edited by Kelly Anderson on Sun Aug 18, 2024 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT, But Puts Our Reproduction Efforts to Shame
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2023 12:53 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11826
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
JR May wrote:
The tractor in question is a one-off build and a big one at that. Does it require owning a railroad? No, but it requires a damn large field to see it used as intended, and a building with a heck of a door to store it in. Certainly not items that will be found with ease, and affordably, in many states.


I just drove through eastern Colorado, Nebraska, and Iowa on two-lane roads the entire way.

There's LOTS of open land--including huge swaths you could probably plow to your heart's content without anybody ever being the wiser. I swear, some of these farms are bigger than my home county in Pennsylvania.

Come up with a better excuse.


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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT, But Puts Our Reproduction Efforts to Shame
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2023 1:28 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 1652
Location: Byers, Colorado
JR May wrote:
And they have a great magazine that anyone involved in wooden rail car work should pick up on occasion.


RyPNer Great Western is too modest to tell us that he edits a superb, high quality, low cost magazine called ANTIQUE POWER. This comes out six times a year and deals with tractors and farm machinery, and my local Kroger chain grocery store carries it. You might want to check it out.

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I am just an old man...
who wants to fix up an old locomotive.

Sammy King


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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT, But Puts Our Reproduction Efforts to Shame
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2023 1:30 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:18 am
Posts: 725
Location: Wall, NJ
> RyPNer Great Western is too modest to tell us that he
> edits a superb, high quality, low cost magazine called ANTIQUE POWER.

As an antique tractor owner, its one of my favorite magazines!

J.R. May


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 Post subject: Re: Slightly OT, But Puts Our Reproduction Efforts to Shame
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2023 3:33 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:06 pm
Posts: 144
I've said before, that the railway preservation industry, steam in particular, need to take a hard look at the steam traction hobby for some lessons. I like to attend a couple steam tractor meets each year. The first thing I always notice is how many young people are involved and incredibly knowledgeable. Secondly, I don't get the impression that these folks are wealthy per say. Most tend to be farmers with great appreciation for their heritage and are extremely passionate about preserving these machines. The resourcefulness they must have to pull it off is incredible. If we could find a way to cross transfer just a fraction of the skill set, ambition and resourcefulness of that hobby over to railway preservation we'd be in good shape.


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