Question for anyone....

What have been the fastest speeds on steam excursions? Which locomotives?

-Alan Levy

alanl759@aol.com

> Question for anyone....

> What have been the fastest speeds on steam
> excursions? Which locomotives?

> -Alan Levy

Just for clarification, might you be asking for the official fastest speed or unofficial (as in possibly above track limit)?

Stephen

syfrettinc@bellsouth.net

> What have been the fastest speeds on steam
> excursions? Which locomotives?

You open a nasty can of worms here. There have been instances where official speed limits have been shattered pretty badly by delayed excursions making up time. Most of these incidents no doubt happened in early UP steam days or CB&Q excursion days, or possibly SP 4449 on AFT or SR duties. I remember reading of speeds in the low 90s unofficially clocked. (I do believe the statute of limitations has expired?)

Even "officially" timing a train is somewhat fraught in the US, where milepost tend to be something of a suggestion rather than the very official measurement they are in the UK (in the UK you can even purchase booklets that tell you precisely how far apart mileposts are on certain lines and divisions, down to the nearest rod/chain/yard). Thus the sport of train timing to gauge relative engine practice and performance is a well-noted segment of the hobby in the UK, as opposed to here in the US. Thus, the practice of not accepting a speed record as "official" unless timed by a dynamometer car.

Having said that, I will say that I personally have ridden main line excursions in the UK that ran on the high side of 80 mph (behind LNER A4's, V2 4771 and LMS 46229) on the North Wasle Coast Line in 1991.........


lner4472@bcpl.net

I recall a quote from Bill Purdie, maybe it was in Trains, re: SP 4449 ferry move from Atlanta to Alexandria with the SR excursion train. The consist was running on the "race track" between Charlottesville and Manassas, VA. Bill stated "I'd never been that fast on a steam locomotive unless something was wrong". Recalling second-hand information, 25 years later, I remember someone who was on the trip saying the speedometer in Missionary Ridge hit 90.

Wesley

> I recall a quote from Bill Purdie, maybe it
> was in Trains, re: SP 4449 ferry move from
> Atlanta to Alexandria with the SR excursion
> train. The consist was running on the
> "race track" between
> Charlottesville and Manassas, VA. Bill
> stated "I'd never been that fast on a
> steam locomotive unless something was
> wrong". Recalling second-hand
> information, 25 years later, I remember
> someone who was on the trip saying the
> speedometer in Missionary Ridge hit 90.

> Wesley hi guys does this count? in the late 1950s . i went on a fan trip out of montreal to bancroft ont. on the way back on monday igot a cab ride on a hudson from ottwa to mtl. we left 20mins late and got into dorval 5 mins early. i timed it at a mile in32 sec. for over 60 miles to make up time. the loco rode so rough i was almost sick when i got off. i never want a ride like that again. regardsbb


staybolt2@netscape.net

I would look to UP and CB&Q early excursions where they had cab signals and track speeds over 80 mph and when the engines were newer.

Electric City Trolley Museum Association

> I would look to UP and CB&Q early
> excursions where they had cab signals and
> track speeds over 80 mph and when the
> engines were newer.
I was on U.P. excursion in May of 1970 Denver to Laramie, Wy. and return. This of course wsa behind 844 (then 8444). Personally timed mileposts at 90mph or a little above.


edwinsinclair@hotmail.com

Bill Purdie stated "I'd never been that fast on a
steam locomotive unless something was wrong".

I think Bill's actual quote was "I've never been that fast on a steam locomotive WITHOUT something GOING wrong." !!! (exclamations mine).

I think 2839 and 611 both pushed the 79 mph speed limit from time to time between 1979 and 1986 when the Dismal Swamp wreck changed things forever.

Wrinnbo@aol.com

> I was on U.P. excursion in May of 1970
> Denver to Laramie, Wy. and return. This of
> course wsa behind 844 (then 8444).
> Personally timed mileposts at 90mph or a
> little above.

CB&Q 5632 reportedly ran through Hoffman in St. Paul with the speed recorder showing 101 returning from the early-1960's fantrip to LaCrosse where she ran out of fuel and returned to Minneapolis almost 24 hours late.


dougb@sunserver.com

> I was on U.P. excursion in May of 1970
> Denver to Laramie, Wy. and return. This of
> course wsa behind 844 (then 8444).
> Personally timed mileposts at 90mph or a
> little above.

On the 1997 NRHS convention trip, 844 hit well over 80 between Salt Lake City and Ogden in both directions of that trip.

> I was on U.P. excursion in May of 1970
> Denver to Laramie, Wy. and return. This of
> course wsa behind 844 (then 8444).
> Personally timed mileposts at 90mph or a
> little above.

I was on a UP 8444 trip in 1968 where a guy was timing mileposts in the vestibule as we returned to Cheyenne. He said we were doing 90, and we WERE flying low!!!

I also heard the 5632 did some real fast running around 90 or so, but I never got to see that loco.

My dad told me he rode a 127(ex CPR 1278)trip sponsored by High Iron, that was pretty fast(around 80). I think it went to Port Jervis. My brother and I bought the ticket for him as a Birthday Present. I want to say this was around 1970 or thereabouts??? It was one of his favorite excursions, as he liked speed trips.

Greg Scholl

Videos
sales@gregschollvideo.com

I recall that on 611's first farewell tour in 1959, she was allowed to run up pretty high on the straight away between Norfolk and Petersburg. I'm told by some who were there the speed was in excess of 100 mph in some locations. Jim

http://nctrans.org
Wrinnbo@aol.com

May 1973 trip behind UP 8444, Denver to Laramie and back. On the return leg, I was riding in the open-door baggage car and could observe the mileposts clearly. After the train descended Sherman Hill and passed Borie, it turned southward onto what was some pretty hot railroad between there and Denver. The train clocked 80 mph, mile after mile after mile.

Dan Cupper

cupper@att.net

Sound recordings CAN be used as one form of evidence when considering steam locomotive speeds. Unfortunately, for such a recording to be admissible as evidence, one would have to have made the recording on a piece of audio recording equipment with verifiable recording and playback speed, voltage, etc.--a tape on that portable mono recorder you plugged into the outlet in the recording car won't cut it.

In the realm of commercial recordings, Semaphore's "Modern Steam" (one of THE all-time classic railroad LPs, which I wish would be remastered and re-released--Alan Botto, are you listening?) has a couple tracks that my friend and I once experimented with. Assuming that all playback speeds were accurate, we tackled an onboard recording of that 1959 N&W excursion with 611 between Petersburg and Crewe and the CB&Q 5632(?--or was it 5629?) at speed through a town with multiple grade crossings in the wee hours of a morning with an excursion. From the former, between what little we could get of the exhaust (70" drivers make for a blur faster) and the rail joints of what we assumed were 39' rails, we calculated a speed somewhere around 92 mph at one point in the recording--on a trip that popular legend confirms at least one 100 mph stretch. With the CB&Q Northern, it was hopeless trying to figure out the exhaust (CB&Q O5's were notorious for an exhaust melding into one continuous roar), but from the VERY sharp Doppler pitch drop in that howling chime whistle (indelibly ingrained into my DNA by now), we calculated an approximate speed of 85-90 mph--this right through a town with so many crossings the whistle barely kept up with cranking out 14L's fast enough!

All of this pales, however, to what is probably the world steam excursion record, when a special train organised by the Stephenson Locomotive Society ran from London to Doncaster and back on 23rd May 1959. The train of 295 tons gross weight, hauled by a class A4 Pacific No. 60007 "Sir Nigel Gresley", and driven by celebrity "Top Link" engine driver Bill Hoole, accelerated to a speed of 112 mph on Stoke Bank south of Grantham before being ordered to slow down by wayside signals. The asterisk to this record, however, is that steam was still in regular service on British Rail and the East Coast Main Line at that time; therefore, it probably qualifies as "regular operation" rather than "preservation".

Moreover, Britain's top steam locomotive audio recorder Peter Handford (a movie studio sound engineer by trade) was on board, and finally the masters of THIS spectacular recording are available on CD. The link below is not the only source for the CD; try an Internet search under the title below. Other Transacord (Handford's company) CD re-releases have made it to the US, but I haven't found a US seller of this must-have classic yet......

Triumph of an A4 Pacific
lner4472@bcpl.net

............. didn't PRR "7002"/1223 hit some pretty brisk 70+ running between Harrisburg and Lancaster on the NRHS 50th Anniversary excursions of June 1985? This might hold some kind of oldest/fastest speed combination record, if we start factoring in age of the participants at the time........

lner4472@bcpl.net